Barbera 7, Other Nonsense and Advice from the Old Fisherman

[Thor]

Nice try.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
It's a slippery slope, but not corrupt until you slip.

The point of the concept of conflict of interest and why one should avoid it is that one can't tell whether one has slipped or not. It's not enough to think that one's own motives are pure.

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Joe Dressner:

Furthermore, posting 70 "tasting notes" on the internet about wines that sound horrible is a new type of showmanship.

A simple question: why bother? What purpose does it serve?

Why?

Joe, he's trying to inspire Schadenfreude in you.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Joe Dressner:
A simple question: why bother? What purpose does it serve?

It helps shoppers to know what they might be getting before they have to buy. (I know all the caveats here, Joe, but the truth is that there is a _lot_ of wine in the world and it is nice to hunt around for info and actually find some, good or bad.)

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Joe Dressner:

One of the key lessons is to avoid freebies sponsored by trade associations, government groups, AOCs and other such organizations.

C'mon, Joe, isn't this how you developed your fabulous portfolio of Anjou Brissac?

 

[Keith Levenberg]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
I can think about the truth until green turns red,
But I think maybe I'll just go fishin instead,
Cause you know, I'm pretty sure I'll end up where I belong...

Nice line. What's that from?

 

[Joe Dressner]

Jeff:

Here's a useful Blogger tasting note from Thor taken at random:

Alice Bel Colle 2008 Barbera dAsti al Cas (Piedmont) Faint brett funk, chewy walnuts with a haze of rancidity. Brett continues to palate, Band-Aid & soil, tannin, sourness & greenness. Not pleasant at all. Flawed.

I looked for the wine on winesearcher.com. It is not available in the United States.

If a tasting note is written in an empty forest, does it really exist? How does this note add to our knowledge? Frankly, Thor could have made up the name of a winery and no one would be any wiser (although I'm not doubting his veracity).

Some of the Barbera 7 might have acted as journalists and done entensive interviewing with people who still make good wine in Barbera and trace the history of what has happened there.

The problem with the tasting note method is all that matters is the subjective judgement of the guy who has the wine in his mouth. Everyone is a megataster! The trip is purely centered around each Blogger, not the region. Frankly, they could have just shipped the wine to Boston and tasted there.

History and culture were not on the agenda.

 

[Rahsaan]

originally posted by Joe Dressner: History and culture were not on the agenda.

It seemed like it could have been an interesting cultural moment when the different Barbera perpsectives clashed.

 

[kirk wallace]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
It's a slippery slope, but not corrupt until you slip.

The point of the concept of conflict of interest and why one should avoid it is that one can't tell whether one has slipped or not. It's not enough to think that one's own motives are pure.

I agree the conflict is there, but I have to agree with Oswaldo that the mere existence of the conflict doesn't mean that no judgment can be valid; hence the importance of the disclosure so the reader can take the conflict into account.

In the case of the Barbera 7, it seems very hard to accuse them simultaneously of being rude for announcing their dislike of the wines and being inredemably conflicted for having accepted the invitation. Is any one suggesting that they might have written nicer things had they paid their own way?

One can be a rude guest (and frankly, I don't think it was rude in this case, unless SFJoe is right that the sponsors reasonably thought they were buying favorable reviews (or at least silence)) by trying to cling to one's own judgment -- I almost wrote "objectivity" -- or one can be a bought sychophant. I don't see how these guys can be accused of being both at the same time.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

Excellent point, Kirk. (It could be that Joe is playing Steve with us.)

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

originally posted by Rahsaan:

originally posted by Joe Dressner: History and culture were not on the agenda.

It seemed like it could have been an interesting cultural moment when the different Barbera perpsectives clashed.

Cultural, aesthetic and economic. Indeed, that was what I found very interesting about that piece. I could have used more musing on the topic and less TNs, but that's generally true of wine postings, including my own.

 

[Thor]

But I suspect that the rules of politeness established in the days of the old fisheries are in a bit of flux as the new unpaid media tries to figure out how it all works. Maybe they didn't get the memo, or maybe the PR folks assumed they'd understand the old rules would apply.

unless SFJoe is right that the sponsors reasonably thought they were buying favorable reviews

This part, since it's offered in seriousness, I would like to address. They were under no misapprehension regarding what they were, or could be, getting into by inviting us. It's possible that some of the producers were surprised, based on their reactions at the time and later, but the actual issuers of the invitation were not misled on this point, and in fact were repeatedly and specifically instructed on it more than once during the planning stages, and asked to reconfirm by at least one of the invitees. The only thing that appeared to surprise the organizers (rather than just the producers) was the reaction of much of the non-Italian* mainstream press and trade, which mirrored ours and tended to be expressed in person before it was expressed in writing, rather than the reverse.

*I make this distinction because at one point, having been essentially attacked and confronted for a good portion of two tastings on day two by said non-Italian mainstream press and trade, the producers deferred to someone from Gambero Rosso for a lengthy defense of them, their wines, and their winemaking choices. Which is all fine and all are certainly welcome to their opinions, but I think it's worth noting that there was -- to generalize -- an Italian/non-Italian divide in the reactions to the wines. It was not all negativity.

I could have used more musing on the topic and less TNs

I agree with you (except regarding your use of the word "less" in lieu of "fewer"). I've already posted some of the early musings, but the most interesting material is yet to come (and here I'm only talking about myself, as the other six of our group and many of the journalists and tradespeople who also attended have already provided their own perspectives; I am, as usual, slower). That said, there are and will still be tasting notes. It's my feeling that having the tasting notes out there assists in the contextualization of the essays. Those that want them can make use (or "use") of them. Those that don't can ignore them.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

Barbera 7 has a nice ring to it.

 

[Thor]

I can't remember if "Strappo" Hughes or Alfonso Cevola coined it as a replacement for the unsatisfactory "The Barbera Boys."

 

[Steve Edmunds]

originally posted by Keith Levenberg:

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
I can think about the truth until green turns red,
But I think maybe I'll just go fishin instead,
Cause you know, I'm pretty sure I'll end up where I belong...

Nice line. What's that from?

When Old Men Sing; I wrote it in 2001.

 

[The Wine Mule]

originally posted by Joe Dressner:

This Barbera 7 is a new phenomena. Hard headed bloggers who accept funding to go on a trip where they know they will be panning the wines being shown them.

Okay, Barbera 7! 'Fess up! How many of you knew in advance you'd hate the wines (especially the ones that aren't available in the U.S.)?

 

[Jeff Grossman]

I knew this all sounded vaguely familiar.

 

[lucertoran]

originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Barbera 7, Other Nonsense and Advice from the Old FishermanThe old fisherman has been throwing his bait into the wine ocean for years and has learned many lessons about how to catch good fish.

One of the key lessons is to avoid freebies sponsored by trade associations, government groups, AOCs and other such organizations.

You will get a free trip and have to taste all the most horrible wines produced in the organization's area. They're not paying your way for your critical sensibility -- they want some promotion for what they are actually producing not what an American blogger imagines they should produce.

Honestly, to accept such a trip (unless you've only recently taking up fishing and don't know how to catch a live one) and then criticize the organizers for betraying your critical sensibilities can only be called impolite.

Be critical on your own dime!

Tu m'enleves les mots de la bouche.

 

[lucertoran]

originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Barbera 7, Other Nonsense and Advice from the Old FishermanThe old fisherman has been throwing his bait into the wine ocean for years and has learned many lessons about how to catch good fish.

One of the key lessons is to avoid freebies sponsored by trade associations, government groups, AOCs and other such organizations.

You will get a free trip and have to taste all the most horrible wines produced in the organization's area. They're not paying your way for your critical sensibility -- they want some promotion for what they are actually producing not what an American blogger imagines they should produce.

Honestly, to accept such a trip (unless you've only recently taking up fishing and don't know how to catch a live one) and then criticize the organizers for betraying your critical sensibilities can only be called impolite.

Be critical on your own dime!

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Beautiful subject.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I knew this all sounded vaguely familiar.

Wow, amazing how the exact same territory was covered. Are we always destined to repeat history as farce?