TN: Last nights Syrah/Shiraz and Tokaj

is absolutely fucking dead.

I know of producers that plan on making more Rosso just to have something people want to buy.
 
Maybe someone in the retail chain could explain this to me... why might different wines from the same importer that have gone through the same chain vary so widely in price competitiveness on a national scale.

For example, Triage whom we all dearly love out here in WA, sells 08 Briords so it hits the shelf at about $16-17, 05 Rougeard Poyeux hits at about $75...(about what I'd expect nationally give or take) and then something like the above mentioned Capellano chinato sticks out like a sore thumb wholesaling for about what it retails elsewhere in the country.

This one I still don't quite understand as it has passed through all the same hands (ie not grey market).
 
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
We were selling it for $66. Doesn't sound too unreasonable, especially given the distance traveled.
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Guess I'm just seeing it heavily discounted elsewhere ($69-80 on wine searcher). But anyway, rather than trying to call anybody out on anything (Triage is the best around BTW, and I have tons of love for them), I'm just trying to figure out why it seems like this happens with some wines. Too often it seems to be the quirky ones that I love but that are probably difficult to sell. I want to support distributors taking chances and bringing in that type of thing.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
originally posted by Yixin:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=a3nmkBEMl2hI
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I hate wine.
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That's not wine, it's a ritual sacrifice of money.
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I had this long discussion with an experienced commodities trader about the 'liquefaction' of his business over the last decade, and he said that the return on risk adjusted capital was always going to be better in the physical rather than paper market.

Seems like some wine has gone the same way, and the end investors will, as almost always, end up getting screwed.
 
originally posted by VLM:

As you know, I had (Southern) dinner with a bunch of ITB folks Sunday and the consensus was that there are entire categories of wine that no longer have a market, including high end Shiraz.

Viable
2007 Rhnes
2007 Napa Cabs
Beaujolais
HEAVILY (50%+) discounted CA wines that started at $30-50.

Non-Viable
2006-2008 red Bordeaux
non-2007 Rhnes
non-2007 Napa Cabs
$40+ Spanish reds
$30+ Australian wines
Barolo & Barbaresco unless heavily discounted.
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This accords pretty well with what our consumer research is showing, although there is always some demand for almost anything. I don't have any recent data on Alsace, Loire or Burgundy. I think the "non-2007" meme is a trade issue, little to do with consumer perceptions. Can't speak to $40+, but over $20 Spanish reds still have relatively positive reception. Napa Cabs should be divided into "known" and "unknown". Beaujolais is interesting with high negativity on anything smacking of Nouveau and a small groundswell for the Cru wines.

To tell the truth, I never saw any hard data indicating major demand for expensive Aussie wines in the U.S.

I'm hesitant to say the ground has "permanently" shifted for high end wines. People said that in the last recession of this magnitude, two years before the era of Wall Street decadence and designer everything really kicked in.
 
I've personally seen great prices on Brovia, Vajra, and G. Mascarello 2004s recently. A friend in retail who sells nationally sent out a list with Vajra and Monprivato at great prices with no takers...2005 is good, 2006/7 are excellent.There is a lot of great wine out there that isn't moving. if you can wait and are more flexible in your tastes there will be fantastic bargains. There is a lot of really good wine that is clogging up the channels.
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Any particular retailers to suggest? I was priced out of the Barolo/Barbaresco market a while ago, but would like to lay away some at a reasonable price. I'm quite flexible on producer, just prefer them to be neither too funky nor too modern. Old but clean, so to speak.
 
I am not sure what you mean that by prices falling badly the wine will disappear from the market but you cannot buy it more cheaply.
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In some cases, it means that rather than sell it at an enormous discount, the importer/wholesaler "buries" it in an account where normal high end wine consumers don't buy or re-exports it.
 
Yeah, if the 04 Giacosa RdF Riserva is not moving at $500, then you can see discounts of 30%, and this brings the wine to $350.
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I find it hard to digest the notion of "economizing" by buying a wine at $350 rather than $500. You'd assume that people who buy that kind of wine have so much money that such discounts are hardly noticeable.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The situation of wine disappearing is not complex. Assume that producer X...If he cannot get that price for more than one or two years, that domaine will cease to exist...

Now assume that importer Y has been told by producer X that he has to charge a certain amount for his wine or he will not be able to support his business. If the importer thinks that he cannot sell the wine at what he needs in order to make a minimum profit, he will not import the wine...

...While price inflation is pestiferous in many ways, deflation is far uglier and brings with it the economic downward spiral of depression.
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Well put. Your second example happens quite frequently, also at the next tier down (distributors). The first example usually takes longer to work through the system.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Old but clean, so to speak.
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3:14 et seq.
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Yes but: who's that li'l ole man? ;^)

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

J'ai gch vingt ans de mes plus belles annes au billard. Si c'tait refaire, je recommencerais. Roger Conti
 
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