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Public NYC Louis/Dressner Tasting: WTF?
- Thread starter Roger LaMarque
- Start date
I guess I'm a little surprised at the notion that large-format wine tasting would be "fun." It's work -- literally so, for many in attendance, unless it's a purely public event -- and if you're taking it at all seriously, which I define as trying to learn something about wines that you're encountering in a very different context than you will ever actually use them yourself, it requires concentration and a certain dedication. You're also, depending on the tasting, spitting out enormous quantities of wine you'd be happy to drink (and some you wouldn't). And you're doing it all in an atmosphere where the things that might make it fun -- talking to winemakers/reps, chatting with your fellow tasters -- distract you from the work at hand.
Remember, too, that if it's work for the tasters, it's numbing work for the pourers. Tedious, repetitive, and often not at all rewarding...except in a theoretically financial way. You're watching people swirl and spit something you may have literally bled for, scribble down a few words (or points, or check marks) after this five-second encounter, and then move on. So it takes quite an effort to be full of joy and free-wheeling conviviality on that side of the table.
All that doesn't mean you can't get something out of it. Certainly, you should try to do so. And if you can't, maybe...as Jim suggests...this tasting format isn't for you. I would think that some can and some can't, and that part of the work of it is learning how to get something out of such tastings. There's no one method that works for everyone, and though I know some people would argue that it's just not possible to really get something out of a sip-and-spit tasting, I'm not one of them. You just have to know going in what the limitations are going to be.
If it's really just free-wheeling conviviality you're after, I might suggest that you not spit. It's one way, at least. I don't necessarily recommend it for all the obvious reasons, but alcohol remains alcohol, no matter the form of the tasting.
Remember, too, that if it's work for the tasters, it's numbing work for the pourers. Tedious, repetitive, and often not at all rewarding...except in a theoretically financial way. You're watching people swirl and spit something you may have literally bled for, scribble down a few words (or points, or check marks) after this five-second encounter, and then move on. So it takes quite an effort to be full of joy and free-wheeling conviviality on that side of the table.
All that doesn't mean you can't get something out of it. Certainly, you should try to do so. And if you can't, maybe...as Jim suggests...this tasting format isn't for you. I would think that some can and some can't, and that part of the work of it is learning how to get something out of such tastings. There's no one method that works for everyone, and though I know some people would argue that it's just not possible to really get something out of a sip-and-spit tasting, I'm not one of them. You just have to know going in what the limitations are going to be.
If it's really just free-wheeling conviviality you're after, I might suggest that you not spit. It's one way, at least. I don't necessarily recommend it for all the obvious reasons, but alcohol remains alcohol, no matter the form of the tasting.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
How does LD decide where to hold these events? Combination of population, affluence, and wine culture? What would it take to get Charlottesville on the Louis-Dressner map? There is a decent mass of swilling professors and a couple of good stores. Virginia Wine Warehouse carries quite a few LD wines and might cooperate in hosting.
Just asking - I have no financial interest.
Just asking - I have no financial interest.
Hi Newb - don't attack.
The tasting is great - I discovered several wines I had never tasted before and got to try the current releases of lots of things I've had in the past and liked. And yeah its a commercial tasting L/D and CSW did it so you'll buy wine - and in that respect it was successful - there was things I would not have known to buy had I not tasted them. Plus I got to see J. Dressner berate someone in real life. I was glad I went even if I wouldn't call it "fun". But knowing I'm going to like the stuff I bought IS fun.
That said its a room full of NYers at a free event. the douchebaggery was rampant. Between the people who had no idea what was going on to the know it alls who thought there was something to be gained by showcasing their wine knowledge for all those around. Thanks guy - I asked Slavko Radikon the question not you. Also you could totally see the pourers getting worn down. J-P Brun wasn't even talking - just eating. I don't really care - that Roussanne was great. Mme Peillot (I guess that's who it was) responded to my admittedly dumb question of "Where in France is Bugey" by showing me a map of France and saying "This is France do you know that?" - but I liked their wine and plan on buying it.
I don't see how someone could think an event like that was meant to be social.
ETA: I'm not complaining about the pourers, merely speaking to Thor's point on how exhausting/enervating an event like this can be for them
The tasting is great - I discovered several wines I had never tasted before and got to try the current releases of lots of things I've had in the past and liked. And yeah its a commercial tasting L/D and CSW did it so you'll buy wine - and in that respect it was successful - there was things I would not have known to buy had I not tasted them. Plus I got to see J. Dressner berate someone in real life. I was glad I went even if I wouldn't call it "fun". But knowing I'm going to like the stuff I bought IS fun.
That said its a room full of NYers at a free event. the douchebaggery was rampant. Between the people who had no idea what was going on to the know it alls who thought there was something to be gained by showcasing their wine knowledge for all those around. Thanks guy - I asked Slavko Radikon the question not you. Also you could totally see the pourers getting worn down. J-P Brun wasn't even talking - just eating. I don't really care - that Roussanne was great. Mme Peillot (I guess that's who it was) responded to my admittedly dumb question of "Where in France is Bugey" by showing me a map of France and saying "This is France do you know that?" - but I liked their wine and plan on buying it.
I don't see how someone could think an event like that was meant to be social.
ETA: I'm not complaining about the pourers, merely speaking to Thor's point on how exhausting/enervating an event like this can be for them
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
I am often astounded by the generosity and patience of winemakers at a large public tasting. At Aug last month, genial Cte-Rtie producer Jean-Michel Stphan graciously and patiently responded to a brusque, well-to-do elderly couple who wanted to taste "some Ctes du Rhne" and were suspicious of this Cte-Rtie nonsense.
You know, this never gets old.originally posted by Jason D:
Plus I got to see J. Dressner berate someone in real life.
originally posted by Jason D:
That said its a room full of NYers at a free event. the douchebaggery was rampant.
An important point not to be dismissed lightly. Bless their hearts.
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
How do importers decide where to hold these things? Combination of population, affluence, and wine culture? What would it take to get Charlottesville on the Louis-Dressner map? There are lots of swilling professors and a couple of good stores. Virginia Wine Warehouse carries quite a few LD wines and might cooperate in hosting.
Just asking - I have no financial interest.
Ian, give it up. I've been trying to get LDM to do the Senator Charles E. Schumer Upstate NY city tour (as a way to encourage economic development of the stagnant New York State economy) for years and I only get blank faxes sent back to me, with faint hammer and sickle line drawings. I guess the money would be better sent going to steel mills in Volgograd...
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Rawr!originally posted by Jason D:
Hi Newb - don't attack.
Once you go a few times then you can get a bit of talk going... "This is sweeter than last year's, isn't it?", "Why do you have a white this year?", etc.J-P Brun wasn't even talking....
It's what the chess masters say about simultaneous exhibitions: the hard part is walking from table to table to table to table....I'm not complaining about the pourers, merely speaking to Thor's point on how exhausting/enervating an event like this can be for them
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
How do importers decide where to hold these things? Combination of population, affluence, and wine culture? What would it take to get Charlottesville on the Louis-Dressner map? There are lots of swilling professors and a couple of good stores. Virginia Wine Warehouse carries quite a few LD wines and might cooperate in hosting.
Just asking - I have no financial interest.
Ian, give it up. I've been trying to get LDM to do the Senator Charles E. Schumer Upstate NY city tour (as a way to encourage economic development of the stagnant New York State economy) for years and I only get blank faxes sent back to me, with faint hammer and sickle line drawings. I guess the money would be better sent going to steel mills in Volgograd...
Indeed, I've been agitating for a DC version, where there is a growing community of people who might be interested in such a thing for a long time. It's true that we don't have a local booze barn that makes stocking LD wines part of its personality, so to speak, but we do have some that carry some and might carry much more if such an event enhanced the market. But it's really not going to happen, I think.
originally posted by SFJoe:
You know, this never gets old.originally posted by Jason D:
Plus I got to see J. Dressner berate someone in real life.
Nobody does it better.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Ollivier makes Muscadet,
Alice De Moor's Aligote,
Puzelat and Croix Boisee,
Silex Noir and Lescarret,
Brezeme, Vaison, Bussieres,
Baudoins, Choisilles, Clos Habert,
Mondeuse, Altesse, Masieri,
Jakot, Gialla, Sangiovese,
Il Frappato, Ronco Malo,
Vigne Rionda, and Chinato,
Graciano, Tempranillo,
VdT and Montemarino,
A bit too light, a bit sauvage,
Eric, what is the cepage?
Swish and spit and gab and chat,
David this and Jamie that,
Try them all at your own pace,
10% off every case.
Alice De Moor's Aligote,
Puzelat and Croix Boisee,
Silex Noir and Lescarret,
Brezeme, Vaison, Bussieres,
Baudoins, Choisilles, Clos Habert,
Mondeuse, Altesse, Masieri,
Jakot, Gialla, Sangiovese,
Il Frappato, Ronco Malo,
Vigne Rionda, and Chinato,
Graciano, Tempranillo,
VdT and Montemarino,
A bit too light, a bit sauvage,
Eric, what is the cepage?
Swish and spit and gab and chat,
David this and Jamie that,
Try them all at your own pace,
10% off every case.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
How does LD decide where to hold these events?
LD invests an enormous amount of money and time into deciding where to hold the events. First, all of the zip codes in the U.S. are given individual demographic profiles, which are then cross-tabulated with household panel data from Nielsen to see which areas index highest for consumption of imported wine over $10/bottle from smaller producers. Then the zip codes with the highest index are subjected to an RDD survey which measures attitudes on subjects like acidity and alcohol, wine production techniques, family farms and Joe's website demeanor. Multi-dimensional scaling of the survey data clusters consumers into groups that can be identified as more or less likely to enjoy and purchase LD wines. The zip codes with the largest number of members of the pro-LD clusters are most likely to be scheduled for LD tastings.
At least, I think that's how it's done. Joe is notoriously close-mouthed and secretive about everything related to our industry.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
At a City FairOllivier makes Muscadet,
Alice De Moor's Aligote,
Puzelat and Croix Boisee,
Silex Noir and Lescarret,
Brezeme, Vaison, Bussieres,
Baudoins, Choisilles, Clos Habert,
Mondeuse, Altesse, Masieri,
Jakot, Gialla, Sangiovese,
Il Frappato, Ronco Malo,
Vigne Rionda, and Chinato,
Graciano, Tempranillo,
VdT and Montemarino,
A bit too light, a bit sauvage,
Eric, what is the cepage?
Swish and spit and gab and chat,
David this and Jamie that,
Try them all at your own pace,
10% off every case.
You put some work into that!
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
How do importers decide where to hold these things? Combination of population, affluence, and wine culture? What would it take to get Charlottesville on the Louis-Dressner map? There are lots of swilling professors and a couple of good stores. Virginia Wine Warehouse carries quite a few LD wines and might cooperate in hosting.
Just asking - I have no financial interest.
Ian, give it up. I've been trying to get LDM to do the Senator Charles E. Schumer Upstate NY city tour (as a way to encourage economic development of the stagnant New York State economy) for years and I only get blank faxes sent back to me, with faint hammer and sickle line drawings. I guess the money would be better sent going to steel mills in Volgograd...
Well, you wouldn't expect him to do economic reconstruction work out of the goodness of his heart - the guy's got to make a living. Most of his Virginia action, of course, is up north. Don't know what Richmond is like as a market, but outside of NoVa, I'd think the C'ville area would be a plausible candidate.
I guess this is an academic reflection, in any event. I'll continue to schedule my own tasting events, one bottle at a time.
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
How does LD decide where to hold these events?
LD invests an enormous amount of money and time into deciding where to hold the events. First, all of the zip codes in the U.S. are given individual demographic profiles, which are then cross-tabulated with household panel data from Nielsen to see which areas index highest for consumption of imported wine over $10/bottle from smaller producers. Then the zip codes with the highest index are subjected to an RDD survey which measures attitudes on subjects like acidity and alcohol, wine production techniques, family farms and Joe's website demeanor. Multi-dimensional scaling of the survey data clusters consumers into groups that can be identified as more or less likely to enjoy and purchase LD wines. The zip codes with the largest number of members of the pro-LD clusters are most likely to be scheduled for LD tastings.
So, basically a large map of the United States and a couple of darts.
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
At a City FairOllivier makes Muscadet,
Alice De Moor's Aligote,
Puzelat and Croix Boisee,
Silex Noir and Lescarret,
Brezeme, Vaison, Bussieres,
Baudoins, Choisilles, Clos Habert,
Mondeuse, Altesse, Masieri,
Jakot, Gialla, Sangiovese,
Il Frappato, Ronco Malo,
Vigne Rionda, and Chinato,
Graciano, Tempranillo,
VdT and Montemarino,
A bit too light, a bit sauvage,
Eric, what is the cepage?
Swish and spit and gab and chat,
David this and Jamie that,
Try them all at your own pace,
10% off every case.
Bravo!! Encore, encore!
Mark Lipton
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
We learn from our mistakes. To show good faith, anyone who attended last Saturday's free tasting who found the event alienating is entitled to a full refund. Contact me at my personal e-mail: captaintumorman@gmail.com
Are those of us who weren't at the event entitled to a refund too? It only seems fair.
Mark Lipton
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
We learn from our mistakes. To show good faith, anyone who attended last Saturday's free tasting who found the event alienating is entitled to a full refund. Contact me at my personal e-mail: captaintumorman@gmail.com
Are those of us who weren't at the event entitled to a refund too? It only seems fair.
Mark Lipton
+1