Produttori '06 crus

T

Thor

Thor Iverson
Can anyone who has a subscription of any sort to the eBob empire confirm or refute that Galloni said the Produttori isn't bottling their 2006 cru Barbarescos? I keep hearing that he said this, but no one seems to be able to produce a quote. Thanks in advance.
 
originally posted by Thor:
Produttori '06 crusCan anyone who has a subscription of any sort to the eBob empire confirm or refute that Galloni said the Produttori isn't bottling their 2006 cru Barbarescos? I keep hearing that he said this, but no one seems to be able to produce a quote. Thanks in advance.
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I don't have a subscription, but he did say this.
 
originally posted by Thor:
Did he say (or hint) as to why?
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Something along the lines that Barbaresco was not as successful as Barolo in 2006 and they either bottle all the crus or none of them. So, to put those two together they felt that at least one Cru did not merit bottling as Riserva.

However, I suspect market forces at work as well.
 
I find the latter difficult to believe, frankly (obviously, this isn't directed at you). Everyone -- everyone -- that we talked to was enthusiastic about 2006, with the one obvious exception (and that conversation was a study in avoidance of the subject, though there were certainly some angry words regarding Mr. Yarrow). Given that their wines are cheaper than everyone else's, and given that their finances aren't like those of the guy down the street, that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.

One or more crus being insufficient makes more sense, I guess, but I'm still surprised.

I guess I'll send him an email and ask, because now I'm intrigued.
 
originally posted by Thor:
I find the latter difficult to believe, frankly (obviously, this isn't directed at you). Everyone -- everyone -- that we talked to was enthusiastic about 2006, with the one obvious exception (and that conversation was a study in avoidance of the subject, though there were certainly some angry words regarding Mr. Yarrow). Given that their wines are cheaper than everyone else's, and given that their finances aren't like those of the guy down the street, that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.

One or more crus being insufficient makes more sense, I guess, but I'm still surprised.

I guess I'll send him an email and ask, because now I'm intrigued.
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I'd email them directly.

They make a lot of wine and they made Cru wines in 2004 and 2005. Maybe a year with tons of $30 Barbaresco seems like a good idea. The Cru wines are still $50-60, remember. While that is a relative bargain, it is still $50-60.

I have a friend who works for a large wholesaler with a presence in multiple states. He sees depletions for all of these states. They are currently selling a good bit of Vajra Barolo Albe which is retailing at $30. Other producers, including famous names such as Scavino are not even moving a case a month across all states. Just think about that for a second.
 
I just sent Aldo an email. I'm sure he's already tired of hearing this question, but we'll see what he says. I don't expect him to be overly forthcoming -- this is still the Piedmont -- but I do except he'll give an honest answer.

I do understand the tremendous market difficulties, but we're not the only market, and in fact some markets were (according to multiple producers) increasing their purchases enough to cover any lack of sales in the States. I don't know what the situation at PdB is, though. My point was more that unlike Gaja, and referencing the discussion on this topic last week, the Produttori can't sustain that business model for very long.
 
Posted following on Galloni board this morning. Meant no disrespect.

Attended a Produttori event last night. Asked Sr. Vacca about the 2006 standard. He mentioned a couple of items that went into the decision re: no riservas. One was the concern that the standard bottle would be be too unbalanced with not enough fruit to match the structure. Too lean for the style that they try to produce. They take the standard bottling very seriously at the co-op. Also, given the embarrassment of riches in recent vintages, he felt that the co-op could go a vintage without the range of riservas for one year. He mentioned experience with previous vintages like 1995 (riservas made because none since 1990, but standard was perhaps too lean) and 1998 (standard might have been too lean, so riservas not produced after a few vintages in a row that were) that informed their thinking in 2006. Also, there was first lot of standard released locally in Albese before the potential riserva juice was blended in. All lots since then have been blended, including what's in international markets now. Co-op's current plans include riservas in 2007 and 2008.

First time I met Sr. Vacca. Very nice man.

Wines poured were great. 2008 Langhe, 2006 standard, 2005 riservas.
 
originally posted by Thor:
I just sent Aldo an email. I'm sure he's already tired of hearing this question, but we'll see what he says. I don't expect him to be overly forthcoming -- this is still the Piedmont -- but I do except he'll give an honest answer.

I do understand the tremendous market difficulties, but we're not the only market, and in fact some markets were (according to multiple producers) increasing their purchases enough to cover any lack of sales in the States. I don't know what the situation at PdB is, though. My point was more that unlike Gaja, and referencing the discussion on this topic last week, the Produttori can't sustain a failing business model for very long.
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Well, the hot market right now is Scandanavia from what people said to me. No way that can make up for a serious downturn in the US market for obvious reasons. For some small producers, maybe. But not all of them and not medium sized ones.
 
Thanks, Bob. I've now read something similar from Tanzer...that there were balance/complexity/aging concerns, and that attempting four declarations is a row was a factor.

And Signore Vacca is indeed a gem. As are his wines. Incredible humility to them. I don't know why I don't drink them more often.
 
Well, the hot market right now is Scandanavia from what people said to me. No way that can make up for a serious downturn in the US market for obvious reasons.
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At certain producers in Alsace (not to change the subject), it was mentioned that the only market that was really presenting serious difficulties was the U.S. At others, it was more general. This wasn't a conversation we were having in the Piedmont, so I can't tell you what they think...except at Giacosa, where they were well aware of the very soft demand, though I think it was also a bit of a post-facto way to shrug off 2006.
 
originally posted by Bob Semon:
SorryPosted following on Galloni board this morning. Meant no disrespect.

Attended a Produttori event last night. Asked Sr. Vacca about the 2006 standard. He mentioned a couple of items that went into the decision re: no riservas. One was the concern that the standard bottle would be be too unbalanced with not enough fruit to match the structure. Too lean for the style that they try to produce. They take the standard bottling very seriously at the co-op. Also, given the embarrassment of riches in recent vintages, he felt that the co-op could go a vintage without the range of riservas for one year. He mentioned experience with previous vintages like 1995 (riservas made because none since 1990, but standard was perhaps too lean) and 1998 (standard might have been too lean, so riservas not produced after a few vintages in a row that were) that informed their thinking in 2006. Also, there was first lot of standard released locally in Albese before the potential riserva juice was blended in. All lots since then have been blended, including what's in international markets now. Co-op's current plans include riservas in 2007 and 2008.

First time I met Sr. Vacca. Very nice man.

Wines poured were great. 2008 Langhe, 2006 standard, 2005 riservas.
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Thanks Bob, that jibes with my thinking. Sometimes they do a Riserva that is a blend, but I haven't seen that since 1988.

When you consider that there have been Riserva in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2005, and will be in 2007 and 2008 (both reported to be excellent) then it makes perfect sense to make just a normale in 2006. It can be released earlier to generate cash flow. Let's not forget that holding all those riservas is not cheap. Every day you hold a wine you are losing money.
 
Cool to hear how seriously they take the standard. I've had just a few, not all wonderful, but the ones that were good, were really good. Hope to try some of the 06.

Thor...are we going to get a write up study in contrasts between Produttori and Gaja, as hinted at...or will that be suddenly announced here as by subscription only?
 
It will be two separate posts. I don't really see any sense in comparing the two, because the only things they have in common are that they both make a wine labeled Barbaresco and their facilities are a few doors away from each other. (Well, and Vacca used to work there, but that's not really germane.)

I'm working through a very difficult post on the Barbera Day of Contention right now. When I've wrestled that to the ground, there are a few more to get to before I start writing up nebbiolos. So don't expect it before the end of the month.
 
Sr. Vacca indicated that the co-op was satisfied with the 06 potential riserva juice as being good enough to have been bottled separately. So it seems economic concerns may have been driving the decision.
 
Interestingly, that's slightly different from what he apparently told Tanzer. But I had forgotten that '06 would have been four declarations in a row, which is obviously a factor no matter the economic considerations. Well, I'll wait to see what he answers.
 
originally posted by Thor:
It will be two separate posts. I don't really see any sense in comparing the two, because the only things they have in common are that they both make a wine labeled Barbaresco and their facilities are a few doors away from each other. (Well, and Vacca used to work there, but that's not really germane.)

I'm working through a very difficult post on the Barbera Day of Contention right now. When I've wrestled that to the ground, there are a few more to get to before I start writing up nebbiolos. So don't expect it before the end of the month.
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Gotcha.
 
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