Thor, that was my interpretation of his words as we discussed the issue, something like "we could've bottled them". I didn't delve into the policy of not bottling any riserva if any one of them doesn't merit the designation in the management's opinion. I probably should have asked, but I suspect that the answer might not have been very succinct. There are probably grower sensitivities in play. But I digress. He stressed the issue of wanting to improve the standard bottle.
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Produttori '06 crus
- Thread starter Thor
- Start date
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Maybe the alleged failed cru was the regular?
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
Indeed. Sometimes a "bad vintage" is a bunch of buyers looking for a reason not to buy.However, I suspect market forces at work as well.
Vincent Fritzsche
Vincent Fritzsche
I have a stray bottle of the '98 normale and think it might be time to check it. I can't remember production amounts, but I believe the normale far outsizes the production of the riservas combined. No wonder it's important to them. They aren't fools, that's for sure.
Steven Spielmann
Steven Spielmann
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
Does this mean that the riserva juice will be in the '06 normale?
Yes.
Perhaps very good news for certain consumers.
Gallioni's review of the '06 normale (a) likes it a lot and (b) includes the comment "I can only wonder what the riservas will be like."
So at the time he wrote that he didn't know.
The '06 normale is on the market already, I guess is what I'm pointing out. You can buy it for as low as $23 at some normal retail outlets. Does that stuff already have the riserva juice? Or should we be looking for a second release, if, say, we were going to buy a case?
Or perhaps this explains why the normale Gallioni already tasted was so good. Inquiring minds want to know!
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
No one seems to have mentioned already, but the 2005 Normale was already quite lean -- 2 vintages in a row like that and you may seriously erode your customer base.
Ignacio Villalgordo
Ignacio Villalgordo
Some data, taken from Gilman's issue #22
...Depending on the vintage, the Nebbiolo bottling comprises anywhere from ten to thirty percent of the Produttoris total production...
...In top vintages the Produttori will produce about fifteen hundred cases of twelve bottles of their cru Ovello...
...usually only matched in quantity of bottles produced with the Pora bottling
The Produttori typically produces about 8,000 bottles of Paj
Rio Sordo in the 1978 vintage, and have made one in each subsequent top vintage, with average production around 10,000 bottles of this cru
Moccagatta produces on average fifteen thousand bottles in a typical top vintage
The Produttori has been producing a Montestefano cru bottling since the
1978 vintage, and it averages about fifteen thousand bottles
Rabaja 14.000
Asili: 9.000
...Depending on the vintage, the Nebbiolo bottling comprises anywhere from ten to thirty percent of the Produttoris total production...
...In top vintages the Produttori will produce about fifteen hundred cases of twelve bottles of their cru Ovello...
...usually only matched in quantity of bottles produced with the Pora bottling
The Produttori typically produces about 8,000 bottles of Paj
Rio Sordo in the 1978 vintage, and have made one in each subsequent top vintage, with average production around 10,000 bottles of this cru
Moccagatta produces on average fifteen thousand bottles in a typical top vintage
The Produttori has been producing a Montestefano cru bottling since the
1978 vintage, and it averages about fifteen thousand bottles
Rabaja 14.000
Asili: 9.000
Oliver McCrum
Oliver McCrum
I haven't heard an explanation for Giacosa's decision to downplay '06, and it's interesting that Vacca is doing the same. Certainly the Barolo producers I've talked to are mystified by Giacosa's criticism of the vintage in general (as opposed to any particular problems they might have had).
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
I can't get into their warehouses, large distributors of different Piedmont wines but our info is anything retail over $35 or $40 is backing up the KAZOO. It's hard to keep the sales people in the dark. Nobody wants to give it away yet???? Quien sabe? what will happen. Greece, Spain, etc people are nervous in Europe.
originally posted by Ignacio Villalgordo:
Some data, taken from Gilman's issue #22
...Depending on the vintage, the Nebbiolo bottling comprises anywhere from ten to thirty percent of the Produttoris total production...
...In top vintages the Produttori will produce about fifteen hundred cases of twelve bottles of their cru Ovello...
...usually only matched in quantity of bottles produced with the Pora bottling
The Produttori typically produces about 8,000 bottles of Paj
Rio Sordo in the 1978 vintage, and have made one in each subsequent top vintage, with average production around 10,000 bottles of this cru
Moccagatta produces on average fifteen thousand bottles in a typical top vintage
The Produttori has been producing a Montestefano cru bottling since the
1978 vintage, and it averages about fifteen thousand bottles
Rabaja 14.000
Asili: 9.000
So, yeah. A lot of fucking wine.
Scandinavians are going to need to really change their drinking patters.
Judging by Thor, I'm not sure they're up for it.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Plus the Germans and the Burgundians are also claiming that the Scandinavians are taking it all --I think they're confusing percentage increase with actual increase.originally posted by VLM:
So, yeah. A lot of fucking wine.
Scandinavians are going to need to really change their drinking patters.
Judging by Thor, I'm not sure they're up for it.
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Plus the Germans and the Burgundians are also claiming that the Scandinavians are taking it all --I think they're confusing percentage increase with actual increase.originally posted by VLM:
So, yeah. A lot of fucking wine.
Scandinavians are going to need to really change their drinking patters.
Judging by Thor, I'm not sure they're up for it.
The Norwegians will save us all!!!
Sometimes folks have problems distinguishing between currency changes and actual permanent market traction.
And from Aldo Vacca himself: technical and marketing reasons. I didn't ask for permission to repost the email so I'll summarize.
Technical: 2006 was good but warm/ripe, not enough finesse and complexity to make great cru wines and preserve the quality of the regular wine
Marketing: thought it would be better to make a lot of 2006 Barbaresco since 07, 08, 09 crus will be produced; if either 07 or 08 would have been poor vintages they would have released the 06s
Technical: 2006 was good but warm/ripe, not enough finesse and complexity to make great cru wines and preserve the quality of the regular wine
Marketing: thought it would be better to make a lot of 2006 Barbaresco since 07, 08, 09 crus will be produced; if either 07 or 08 would have been poor vintages they would have released the 06s
Steven Spielmann
Steven Spielmann
But when do the normales with the cru juice slip into the market? Or have they already?
originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
But when do the normales with the cru juice slip into the market? Or have they already?
Already.
originally posted by Bob Semon:
originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
But when do the normales with the cru juice slip into the market? Or have they already?
Already.
Any way to distinguish the bottles or is it safe to assume non grey market bottles in the US are the blended wine?
originally posted by Josh Beck:
originally posted by Bob Semon:
originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
But when do the normales with the cru juice slip into the market? Or have they already?
Already.
Any way to distinguish the bottles or is it safe to assume non grey market bottles in the US are the blended wine?
Looks like I'm the only person in the world who wants to find some bottles of the first, non-blended lot. I'm less savvy than most, I suppose. The first lot was released locally in the Alba area. Subsequent releases, including those for foreign markets, have the could-have-been cru wines blended in. Sorry, I didn't ask for the lot numbers. I thought it might appear unseemly to ask. I'll leave that to Thor. He's pretty unseemly. (Just kidding!)
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
No one seems to have mentioned already, but the 2005 Normale was already quite lean -- 2 vintages in a row like that and you may seriously erode your customer base.
I loved it.
Very pretty.
Very '05, with the high toned red fruit and classic acidity often found in Barbarescos from that year.
I sold a bunch of it.
Folks dug it.