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Kermit Lynch 4/10
- Thread starter scottreiner
- Start date
Nicolas Mestre
Nicolas Mestre
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
I agree with the dude who called me an idiot . . .or was it Jesus? Anyway.....the only great Tempier I have had was some '86 Migoua and Tourtine. The Rose is pretty weak. Pradeaux is the best producer of Bandol, as I have had so few bad bottles. Actually none that I can remember. The Rose can age actually, it has that structure. It's cheap for what it is and what's amazing is you would expect a Rosenthal Bandol to be like $400 a case and it isn't. Even the Longue Garde is a value and the 1998 is outrageously good.
Claude,
It's been a while......will tell you soon if it's good to be back. Still sussing that one out.
I don't think I called you anything in particular. I did write that your blog post was idiotic though.
Once again taking it personally.
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
That is my own personal hit rate with Foillard, and it was 15-20%, the 10% was my relationship metaphor..
That still sounds kind of low (certainly much lower than my hit rate) but I will defer to those with more experience.
For what it's worth, in my loose and unscientific classification of low-sulfur wines I always put Foillard towards the top in terms of most stability.
People like Puzelat/Souhaut come in the middle and then Cousin/Courtois on the bottom where I do not spend my own money anymore.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Dare I suggest that a lot of your experience with Foillard is either in France or in Berkeley, while Lyle's is presumably all in NYC?originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
That is my own personal hit rate with Foillard, and it was 15-20%, the 10% was my relationship metaphor..
That still sounds kind of low (certainly much lower than my hit rate) but I will defer to those with more experience.
For what it's worth, in my loose and unscientific classification of low-sulfur wines I always put Foillard towards the top in terms of most stability.
People like Puzelat/Souhaut come in the middle and then Cousin/Courtois on the bottom where I do not spend my own money anymore.
originally posted by Rahsaan:
For what it's worth, in my loose and unscientific classification of low-sulfur wines I always put Foillard towards the top in terms of most stability.
People like Puzelat/Souhaut come in the middle and then Cousin/Courtois on the bottom where I do not spend my own money anymore.
That's pretty close to my list. I'd put Baudry up at the top.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
"Hit" meaning?originally posted by Thor:
Another anecdota: my hit rate with Foillard has been very high, but almost none of it was on the U.S. East Coast.
I would note that the Foillard folks did not regard the wine as ready to drink yet when it was released in the US: http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/2993/originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Lyle Fass doesn't.
So some patience might be indicated.
Not that I prefer 2008 to 2007 or anything, just saying.
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Dare I suggest that a lot of your experience with Foillard is either in France or in Berkeley, while Lyle's is presumably all in NYC?originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
That is my own personal hit rate with Foillard, and it was 15-20%, the 10% was my relationship metaphor..
That still sounds kind of low (certainly much lower than my hit rate) but I will defer to those with more experience.
For what it's worth, in my loose and unscientific classification of low-sulfur wines I always put Foillard towards the top in terms of most stability.
People like Puzelat/Souhaut come in the middle and then Cousin/Courtois on the bottom where I do not spend my own money anymore.
My best bottle was in France in Deauville in 2008. The '05 CDP. I had the '99 in NYC and the '07 in NYC. Both CDP. I also had the '05 Courcelette in France which was pretty brilliant juice. I cannot remember if I had it in NY. I don't think we brought it in. Any of you buy any from CSW? '05 Courcelette?
originally posted by Claude Kolm: Dare I suggest that a lot of your experience with Foillard is either in France or in Berkeley, while Lyle's is presumably all in NYC?
That is correct for my end. So you're suggesting that the KLWM bottles have a tough trip to Nyc?
I've rarely experienced flaws attributable to philosophy."Hit" meaning?
originally posted by SFJoe:
I would note that the Foillard folks did not regard the wine as ready to drink yet when it was released in the US: http://winedisorder.com/comment/56/2993/originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Lyle Fass doesn't.
So some patience might be indicated.
Not that I prefer 2008 to 2007 or anything, just saying.
I am always open to the possibility of Beaujolais turning a corner after showing crappy young. '04 Brun l'Ancien and '04 Coudert Fleurie took 6-8 months to become civilized, still waiting on that Tardive though.
On another note been tasting some 2008 red Burgs and it is grit city and not much fruit. Bourgogne's and village wines mostly but not feeling them at all. Anybody taste any '08 Burgs? Seems pretty terrible at the low end.
originally posted by Thor:
Another anecdota: my hit rate with Foillard has been very high, but almost none of it was on the U.S. East Coast.
The trip is rough and these wines are fragile.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I don't think it's the trip to NYC, because AFAIK, they sail from France straight to the East Coast, but it's handling once landed. As you well know, here, the outside environment is only very rarely a problem -- I can buy from KLWM and take the wine home and not have to worry about temperature at any point. (Although I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how heat didn't destroy all those 2001 and 2002 Burgundies (and other wines) that were in un-air conditioned storage in Europe during the summer of 2003.)originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Claude Kolm: Dare I suggest that a lot of your experience with Foillard is either in France or in Berkeley, while Lyle's is presumably all in NYC?
That is correct for my end. So you're suggesting that the KLWM bottles have a tough trip to Nyc?
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Sorry, we're still on different levels. I still see different interpretations.originally posted by Thor:
I've rarely experienced flaws attributable to philosophy."Hit" meaning?
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
It's like a relationship. Allegedly when the good outweighs the bad then it is over. I believe that even the small amount of good, say 10%, if that's where you are at, can outweigh the 90% bad. The same way I look at these wines. Yes I hated the Foillard '08's. Big fucking deal. We know what goes on at Foillard and as VLM says there is a risk. A big one. But that little good I've had, I'd say around 15-20 percent, has convinced me that these wines are worth pursuing, and maybe that good will be back in 2009. Who knows, but I'll never throw the towel in.
Lyle,
Another factor to thrown in here is our different perceptions of and sensitivity to Brett. I actually enjoy a good deal of gamey/meaty/barnyard stuff in my wine so long as it doesn't stray over into the outright fecal, so I am down with most of KLWM's Morgon stable most of the time. Others who are more sensitive than I am will no doubt have a far lower hit rate. Such is life.
Mark Lipton
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
You betcha!originally posted by Thor:
I don't think you're understanding me, then.
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
It's like a relationship. Allegedly when the good outweighs the bad then it is over. I believe that even the small amount of good, say 10%, if that's where you are at, can outweigh the 90% bad. The same way I look at these wines. Yes I hated the Foillard '08's. Big fucking deal. We know what goes on at Foillard and as VLM says there is a risk. A big one. But that little good I've had, I'd say around 15-20 percent, has convinced me that these wines are worth pursuing, and maybe that good will be back in 2009. Who knows, but I'll never throw the towel in.
Lyle,
Another factor to thrown in here is our different perceptions of and sensitivity to Brett. I actually enjoy a good deal of gamey/meaty/barnyard stuff in my wine so long as it doesn't stray over into the outright fecal, so I am down with most of KLWM's Morgon stable most of the time. Others who are more sensitive than I am will no doubt have a far lower hit rate. Such is life.
Mark Lipton
No question about it. Brett i'm sensitive to, but I do like wines like Beaucastel where it is a component and not loaded with the stuff. I remember a great '94 Chave that had the perfect amount of brett.
For Morgon my man is Descombes then Lapierre. Had good bottles of the other guys, particularly Breton but Foillard and Thevenet vary. I don't like much CDP because most is too ripe and hot, but brett is a factor in my negative view. I find Pegau undrinkable. But generally in Beaujolais I am more of Brun, Roilette, Descombes, Desvignes, Vissoux, Tete kind of guy.