Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
Lyle,
I'm not the politburo, just the peanut gallery, and probably this is the pot calling the kettle black, but could you maybe dial it back from 11 to say 9 on the Spinal Tap scale?
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Kermit Lynch 4/10
- Thread starter scottreiner
- Start date
Lyle,
I'm not the politburo, just the peanut gallery, and probably this is the pot calling the kettle black, but could you maybe dial it back from 11 to say 9 on the Spinal Tap scale?
Steven Spielmann
Steven Spielmann
I'm glad Lyle goes to 11. The only other thing that's gone to 11 in wine lately is 2009 Bordeaux, and I'd rather read Lyle's posts than drink that stuff, so...
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Been called a lot of things but Fox News is great. Jesus and Fox News in the same thread. You'd think I was carrying a bible around Scottsdale driving in my pickup truck asking brown-looking people for their immigration papers? By the time I get to Arizona . . . .
What Mr. Mestre seems to be saying is he likes what he likes. No surprise there as this is a wine board where people give their opinions on wines. Isn't that how this thread was started? As my opinion might be new to him, it is possibly viewed as threat, which is just human nature. I don't fret over these things anymore. Call it the brave new wine board Lyle. So I'm not going to even bother to defend my own opinions.
Lyle,
I'm not the politburo, just the peanut gallery, and probably this is the pot calling the kettle black, but could you maybe dial it back from 11 to say 9 on the Spinal Tap scale?
I am here to stay. I just don't like being hated on for something as absurd a having an opinion and something even more absurd as bottle variation. I call 'em like I see 'em. If the politburo sees fit, they can contact me. But thanks for your consideration.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Been called a lot of things but Fox News is great. Jesus and Fox News in the same thread. You'd think I was carrying a bible around Scottsdale driving in my pickup truck asking brown-looking people for their immigration papers? By the time I get to Arizona . . . .
What Mr. Mestre seems to be saying is he likes what he likes. No surprise there as this is a wine board where people give their opinions on wines. Isn't that how this thread was started? As my opinion might be new to him, it is possibly viewed as threat, which is just human nature. I don't fret over these things anymore. Call it the brave new wine board Lyle. So I'm not going to even bother to defend my own opinions.
Lyle,
I'm not the politburo, just the peanut gallery, and probably this is the pot calling the kettle black, but could you maybe dial it back from 11 to say 9 on the Spinal Tap scale?
I am here to stay. I just don't like being hated on for something as absurd a having an opinion and something even more absurd as bottle variation. I call 'em like I see 'em. If the politburo sees fit, they can contact me. But thanks for your consideration.
I, for one, am glad to see you here. The closing of the eBob to non-subscribers brought us at least one good thing (wait, was that just a coincidence?)
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Been called a lot of things but Fox News is great. Jesus and Fox News in the same thread. You'd think I was carrying a bible around Scottsdale driving in my pickup truck asking brown-looking people for their immigration papers? By the time I get to Arizona . . . .
What Mr. Mestre seems to be saying is he likes what he likes. No surprise there as this is a wine board where people give their opinions on wines. Isn't that how this thread was started? As my opinion might be new to him, it is possibly viewed as threat, which is just human nature. I don't fret over these things anymore. Call it the brave new wine board Lyle. So I'm not going to even bother to defend my own opinions.
Lyle,
I'm not the politburo, just the peanut gallery, and probably this is the pot calling the kettle black, but could you maybe dial it back from 11 to say 9 on the Spinal Tap scale?
I am here to stay. I just don't like being hated on for something as absurd a having an opinion and something even more absurd as bottle variation. I call 'em like I see 'em. If the politburo sees fit, they can contact me. But thanks for your consideration.
I, for one, am glad to see you here. The closing of the eBob to non-subscribers brought us at least one good thing (wait, was that just a coincidence?)
Coincidence. Not enough people over at other places who like to drink and talk about the wines I like. Primary reason I am here.
And for what it's worth I never posted my '08 Foillard notes here for the exact reason of what has transpired.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Coincidence. Not enough people over at other places who like to drink and talk about the wines I like. Primary reason I am here.
And for what it's worth I never posted my '08 Foillard notes here for the exact reason of what has transpired.
Was just kidding, your bustup at eBob is well-known. People can get pretty hostile here, but I hope you won't let that, and what has transpired above, prevent you from posting notes in the future.
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Coincidence. Not enough people over at other places who like to drink and talk about the wines I like. Primary reason I am here.
And for what it's worth I never posted my '08 Foillard notes here for the exact reason of what has transpired.
On a related note, Lyle, you and I are the only two people I've seen on teh Interwebs who've shown much love for Fer Servadou. Have you had any other wines beyond the Causse Marines Marcillac that featured an appealing rendition of it? It fair knocked me out when I tried some last year.
Mark Lipton
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by VLM:
I also had 2005 Coudert Tardive out of magnum over the weekend and it was still tight.
Seconded.
Cory Cartwright
Cory Cartwright
The marcillac from Causse Marine is an eye opener. Wish it was over here on the left coast.
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Coincidence. Not enough people over at other places who like to drink and talk about the wines I like. Primary reason I am here.
And for what it's worth I never posted my '08 Foillard notes here for the exact reason of what has transpired.
On a related note, Lyle, you and I are the only two people I've seen on teh Interwebs who've shown much love for Fer Servadou. Have you had any other wines beyond the Causse Marines Marcillac that featured an appealing rendition of it? It fair knocked me out when I tried some last year.
Mark Lipton
The VV bottling from Domaine du Cros is my top Fer. Not around much but a killer rendition. Cheap too. Under $17.
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Coincidence. Not enough people over at other places who like to drink and talk about the wines I like. Primary reason I am here.
And for what it's worth I never posted my '08 Foillard notes here for the exact reason of what has transpired.
Was just kidding, your bustup at eBob is well-known. People can get pretty hostile here, but I hope you won't let that, and what has transpired above, prevent you from posting notes in the future.
I have a suit of steel. Everything bounces off. I am here for wine geek talk. None of the other bullshit. Plus the occasional ribbing of VLM, Levi, Guillaume and Corey.
I'll post notes soon enough....in the "dropping a rock down the well" phase to see if I should. I call wines like I see them. It ruffles feathers.
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
The Valpane I poured down the drain.
You can cook with that you know.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I've had several different vintages of the Valpane and most have been very good, but there was one that I really didn't like. Even though not technically flawed, I don't think I'd have wanted to cook with it.originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
The Valpane I poured down the drain.
You can cook with that you know.
Nicolas Mestre
Nicolas Mestre
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Been called a lot of things but Fox News is great. Jesus and Fox News in the same thread. You'd think I was carrying a bible around Scottsdale driving in my pickup truck asking brown-looking people for their immigration papers? By the time I get to Arizona . . . .
What Mr. Mestre seems to be saying is he likes what he likes. No surprise there as this is a wine board where people give their opinions on wines. Isn't that how this thread was started? As my opinion might be new to him, it is possibly viewed as threat, which is just human nature. I don't fret over these things anymore. Call it the brave new wine board Lyle. So I'm not going to even bother to defend my own opinions. I've tasted X amount of '08 Beaujolais. More have not been good rather than good. There seems to be a lightness to them I don't find appealing, plus many show alcohol, grit in the middle and the end, and don't seem to have the balance I look for in Beaujolais and wine in general.
There is really not much to taste in Beaujolais to asess a vintage anyway as most people nuke their vineyards and then when the wine is limping around blindly, they finish it off with a sawed-off shotgun to the face in the cellar. There is what, 20 guys that we all give a shit about? Am I being too kind? Producer is important, I agree, but sometimes vintage character does dominate. 2003 Beaujolais is a great example. And for me, I think 2008 is similar in that there is a vintage stamp to the wines.
Lyle, no need for such formality. Call me nicolas.
It appears that you haven't quite gotten the gist of my criticism, which wasn't directed at your aesthetic sensibilities at all. I don't give a shit whether or not you like Foillard.
My qualm is with statements like: "Seems pretty terrible at the low end." in reference to the 2008 vintage in Burgundy.
I take issue with this because you assume that the people reading this post are complicit with however you have decided to define the word "terrible" as it applies to a given wine region in relation to your impressions of the wines you have tasted. But as you have seen with the ensuing dialog regarding the 2008 Foillard CDP, each person's notion of "terrible" or "good" or what constitutes a "flaw" or whatever is not uniform.
Reducing a vintage to a single descriptive word is irresponsible. That is what I take issue with.
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I've had several different vintages of the Valpane and most have been very good, but there was one that I really didn't like. Even though not technically flawed, I don't think I'd have wanted to cook with it.originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
The Valpane I poured down the drain.
You can cook with that you know.
Claude,
I have never cooked much in my life up until the past two years, and I have cooked with corked wine, heat damaged wine, 47 day old opened wine, etc, and I can't tell a difference in the dish versus good wine which I have also cooked with. Granted I am cooking very simple things, but I have found if a wine stinks, and I cook with it it does not seem to matter and affect the dish negatively. I'm sure if my cooking were more ambitious then maybe the cooking wine would be a factor.
Zachary Ross
Zachary Ross
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Coincidence. Not enough people over at other places who like to drink and talk about the wines I like. Primary reason I am here.
And for what it's worth I never posted my '08 Foillard notes here for the exact reason of what has transpired.
On a related note, Lyle, you and I are the only two people I've seen on teh Interwebs who've shown much love for Fer Servadou. Have you had any other wines beyond the Causse Marines Marcillac that featured an appealing rendition of it? It fair knocked me out when I tried some last year.
Mark Lipton
The VV bottling from Domaine du Cros is my top Fer. Not around much but a killer rendition. Cheap too. Under $17.
That there Fer is the bomb. The Lo Sang del Pais is pretty great too. The Causse Marines is also stellar. I know you're not fond of the Laurens, but I've liked it ok.
Cory Cartwright
Cory Cartwright
I would imagine that when Lyle Fass says that he thinks a wine (or wines) is "terrible" we are meant to take is as "Lyle Fass thinks this wine is terrible" and not "Lyle Fass has made what he believes isthe definitive, final, purely objective judgment of this wine and it is terrible."
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Been called a lot of things but Fox News is great. Jesus and Fox News in the same thread. You'd think I was carrying a bible around Scottsdale driving in my pickup truck asking brown-looking people for their immigration papers? By the time I get to Arizona . . . .
What Mr. Mestre seems to be saying is he likes what he likes. No surprise there as this is a wine board where people give their opinions on wines. Isn't that how this thread was started? As my opinion might be new to him, it is possibly viewed as threat, which is just human nature. I don't fret over these things anymore. Call it the brave new wine board Lyle. So I'm not going to even bother to defend my own opinions. I've tasted X amount of '08 Beaujolais. More have not been good rather than good. There seems to be a lightness to them I don't find appealing, plus many show alcohol, grit in the middle and the end, and don't seem to have the balance I look for in Beaujolais and wine in general.
There is really not much to taste in Beaujolais to asess a vintage anyway as most people nuke their vineyards and then when the wine is limping around blindly, they finish it off with a sawed-off shotgun to the face in the cellar. There is what, 20 guys that we all give a shit about? Am I being too kind? Producer is important, I agree, but sometimes vintage character does dominate. 2003 Beaujolais is a great example. And for me, I think 2008 is similar in that there is a vintage stamp to the wines.
Lyle, no need for such formality. Call me nicolas.
It appears that you haven't quite gotten the gist of my criticism, which wasn't directed at your aesthetic sensibilities at all. I don't give a shit whether or not you like Foillard.
My qualm is with statements like: "Seems pretty terrible at the low end." in reference to the 2008 vintage in Burgundy.
I take issue with this because you assume that the people reading this post are complicit with however you have decided to define the word "terrible" as it applies to a given wine region in relation to your impressions of the wines you have tasted. But as you have seen with the ensuing dialog regarding the 2008 Foillard CDP, each person's notion of "terrible" or "good" or what constitutes a "flaw" or whatever is not uniform.
Reducing a vintage to a single descriptive word is irresponsible. That is what I take issue with.
Nicolas,
Okay. I have tasted 10 2008 Burgundies and they tasted really gritty/terrible. Maybe I should have been more descriptive. But you are being a touch pedantic. I did not say I tasted all 2008 Burgs and it seems pretty terrible at the low end, but I tasted 10 (all low end) that were terrible which translates to me thin, acidic, lacking any type of energy, lifeless fruit, gritty tannins and that's about it. If you like wines that taste like that then that is fantastic and sorry if my sense of what I don't like is flawed and does not flow with yours. But each person's sense of flaws and beauty are different. I think on closeout these will be tremendous values. I am sure we have more wines in common that we like than we dislike or we probably would not be here. I have not tasted any 1er Cru's, Grand Cru's, been to Beaune, haven't seen many available in NYC yet, so just going on my own personal experience. I'm pretty sure I asked if anybody had anything else to say at the end of my post. You did and your experience was different. Cool. You said there was very little uniformity of the 70-100 wines you tasted. Of the ten wines I tasted there was uniformity. And that uniformity was negative. I used a one word description and am pretty sure I also used gritty. I can see where you might take offense to it and call me irresponsible but I am what I am and I do what I do just like everybody else and am not perfect. Far from it.
I'm just some fucking guy......
originally posted by Zachary Ross:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Coincidence. Not enough people over at other places who like to drink and talk about the wines I like. Primary reason I am here.
And for what it's worth I never posted my '08 Foillard notes here for the exact reason of what has transpired.
On a related note, Lyle, you and I are the only two people I've seen on teh Interwebs who've shown much love for Fer Servadou. Have you had any other wines beyond the Causse Marines Marcillac that featured an appealing rendition of it? It fair knocked me out when I tried some last year.
Mark Lipton
The VV bottling from Domaine du Cros is my top Fer. Not around much but a killer rendition. Cheap too. Under $17.
That there Fer is the bomb. The Lo Sang del Pais is pretty great too. The Causse Marines is also stellar. I know you're not fond of the Laurens, but I've liked it ok.
The Lauren seems to have no sense of place or sense of Fer. And Fer is a sense of place grape big time. Plus it is very distinctive when dominating a wine or a blend. Laurens is a dark, chewy, refined, tooti-frooti very dense wine. Does that sound like Fer or even Marcillac? Maybe chewy could work because of the tannins, but dark and dense and tooti-frooti, no way. It is well made but does not speak of Fer Servadou grown in Marcillac to me. The rose seemed like it captures Fer and Marcillac better.
I like the Lo Sang too. That is a great quaffer.
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
I would imagine that when Lyle Fass says that he thinks a wine (or wines) is "terrible" we are meant to take is as "Lyle Fass thinks this wine is terrible" and not "Lyle Fass has made what he believes isthe definitive, final, purely objective judgment of this wine and it is terrible."
get me drunk enough and #2 comes out sometimes.