Brun Beaujolais and Ppire going back to Regular Cork

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Tristan Welles:
OK, what did I miss?

And thanks for the welcome.

I sampled some of the 07 twice. It has qualities now that are enjoyable; qualities that will clearly be significantly different a few years on. And I believe significantly better.

At any rate I am glad to learn they aren't under fake-o-cork.
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You've learned to decipher what goes as a welcome around here. You seem to have missed the longstanding belief that most posters are unreal figures invented by only a few others (usually Chris Coad, VLM or Joe Dressner). Given the occurrence of such figures in the past, thinking that posters do not correspond each to its own biological entity may not be a bad one.

You may also not yet have distinguished between actual discussion of what you said, and sniping and posturing for effect. Elsewhere sniping and posturing usually indicates some hidden or not so well hidden motive or at least some form of antagonism or self-aggrandizement. Here they are considered self-justifying pleasures.
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Thanks for the clarification. Typically I only read the wine-related posts as a scorecard for the players has yet to be written. As you suggest, the cross talk, the personal notes, seem mostly for the regulars. For me this board has been a great source of information for lesser-discussed wine regions and producers. Moreso now that VLM is no longer blogging and Mr Dressner's blog is mostly reserved for feuilletons directed at obscure people.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by VLM:

Do whatever you want. I've had enough older Olivier wine to make up my own mind. I doubt I'll let any live past their 10th birthday and most will go long before that.

I don't understand this idea of blindly aging everything and this fetishism with old wines.
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I'll take all that '96 Clos des Briords off your hands.
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C'mon, you know my take on this. 1996 and 2002 are the exceptions, but those types of vintages don't come along that often. When we taste some of the older vintages at Mark's there are many that are still interesting but the 1996 and 2002 always stand out as maintaining plateau or still improving. If you believe in such a thing as apogee (and I suspect that you do not, but rather want different representations of a wine rather than thinking of it as hitting a maximum and then declining), then you are compelled to drink many of these wines younger than many folks here seem to want to.

On a related note, I had a 2002 the other night which was brilliant. As my friend Michael said, "That's the first Muscadet to give me goosebumps."
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by VLM:

I don't understand this idea of blindly aging everything and this fetishism with old wines.
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Hey, haven't you seen those photos of the '29 LHL Moelleux in high heels and a bustier? It'd make a believer out of even you.

Mark Lipton
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There are old wines that are great. Being an old wine doesn't make one great. This can get confused, I think.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I just opened one on Saturday: cork. The Clisson is a premium wine made - I believe - to take some age.
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Sure, you can age it. Don't miss drinking some now, it would be a mistake.

Oh, and fuck you newbie.
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Fuck you, dinosaur.

Muscadet and MSR Riesling I relish with age, but drunk young, to me, they are wasted. Others must choose for themselves. I'll own that the 07 Clisson direct from the bottle gives you a crystalline mouthful before it puts you off.
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Do whatever you want. I've had enough older Olivier wine to make up my own mind. I doubt I'll let any live past their 10th birthday and most will go long before that.

I don't understand this idea of blindly aging everything and this fetishism with old wines.
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Oh I do intend to drink in the evolution. It is great wine.

And you make a significant point: M Pepiere has been making Granite de Clisson for only, what, five or six vintages? So we will all discover its aging potential together. The Briords does give us a clue!

I did break a rule and bought several cases of the 07, usually preferring to drink broadly rather than deeply.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Tristan Welles:
... now that VLM is no longer blogging ...
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That may change soon.
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Very glad to hear it!

Oh, one more thought. You note that you held the '96 Briords because it was an exceptional vintage. I suspect that is the argument people are making for the '07 Granite de Clisson.
 
originally posted by Tristan Welles:

And you make a significant point: M Pepiere has been making Granite de Clisson for only, what, five or six vintages?
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Two, actually: '05 and '07. Your point about Clos de Briords is a good one, but the two wines get different treatment, with the Granite spending more time on the lees IIRC. Whether it will age like the Clos de Briords is something that we'll need to see.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by VLM:
Do whatever you want. I've had enough older Olivier wine to make up my own mind. I doubt I'll let any live past their 10th birthday and most will go long before that.

I don't understand this idea of blindly aging everything and this fetishism with old wines.
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Sorry; I thought you were hazing me for, like, the 13th time. My bad.

Thanks for your blessing, on the other hand. Whew! Now I can drink with an easy conscience.

As for blindly aging everything, there you sound just like Squires.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Whether it will age like the Clos de Briords is something that we'll need to see.
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Not really much doubt here. The site has made long aging wines ('97 Buster, at least the bottles that aren't corked), and long lees contact increases the ability of Muscadet to age fabulously (cf '76, '82, '89 L d'Or). So it would be shocking if '05 and '07 Clissons aged less than brilliantly.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by VLM:
Do whatever you want. I've had enough older Olivier wine to make up my own mind. I doubt I'll let any live past their 10th birthday and most will go long before that.

I don't understand this idea of blindly aging everything and this fetishism with old wines.
Click to expand...

Sorry; I thought you were hazing me for, like, the 13th time. My bad.

Thanks for your blessing, on the other hand. Whew! Now I can drink with an easy conscience.

As for blindly aging everything, there you sound just like Squires.
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Virulent and vicious ad hominem argument. And certainly unjust. I'm not sure to whom, though.

By the way, I had the 07 Clisson yesterday. If too young means too young to be enjoyed, then I'm with VLM. That claim is empirically untrue with regard to this wine. If too young, means it won't have developed into something also good and different ("better" being one of those words used for culling and thus not interesting to me), after some years and perhaps more than VLM stipulates, I think that claim is also false
 
originally posted by Tristan Welles:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Tristan Welles:
... now that VLM is no longer blogging ...
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That may change soon.
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Very glad to hear it!

Oh, one more thought. You note that you held the '96 Briords because it was an exceptional vintage. I suspect that is the argument people are making for the '07 Granite de Clisson.
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The 07 Granite is as tight as whales right now: you definately want to wait on this.

And congrats on the Corks! As they used to say on another bored "U da man!"
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by VLM:
Do whatever you want. I've had enough older Olivier wine to make up my own mind. I doubt I'll let any live past their 10th birthday and most will go long before that.

I don't understand this idea of blindly aging everything and this fetishism with old wines.
Click to expand...

Sorry; I thought you were hazing me for, like, the 13th time. My bad.

Thanks for your blessing, on the other hand. Whew! Now I can drink with an easy conscience.

As for blindly aging everything, there you sound just like Squires.
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Not a blessing, more an admission that I seem to be the outlier here.

I just don't see it, I really don't.

A lot of people age some wines a lot longer than I would, and not to good effect IMO.
 
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Tristan Welles:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Tristan Welles:
... now that VLM is no longer blogging ...
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That may change soon.
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Very glad to hear it!

Oh, one more thought. You note that you held the '96 Briords because it was an exceptional vintage. I suspect that is the argument people are making for the '07 Granite de Clisson.
Click to expand...

The 07 Granite is as tight as whales right now: you definately want to wait on this.

And congrats on the Corks! As they used to say on another bored "U da man!"
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This has not been my experience, but I like my Muscadet brisk.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by MLipton:
Whether it will age like the Clos de Briords is something that we'll need to see.
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Not really much doubt here. The site has made long aging wines ('97 Buster, at least the bottles that aren't corked), and long lees contact increases the ability of Muscadet to age fabulously (cf '76, '82, '89 L d'Or). So it would be shocking if '05 and '07 Clissons aged less than brilliantly.
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Do you really think that either of those will retain their clarity the way that 1996/2002 have?

I have no idea what is going to happen with 2005. I'm hoping it is still baby fat that will be shed. Not sure if their is a good vintage for comparison for Briords.

For Clisson, I didn't cellar any 2005. I'll cellar some 2007, but I do not think it'll make old bones. You can prove me wrong in 20 years.
 
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
In my opinion aging muscadet kills the quality of muscadet that makes it fun to drink, and it starts to taste like cheese rind.
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This is where I'm coming from. 1996 and 2002 are exceptions.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
The 07 Granite is as tight as whales right now: you definately want to wait on this.
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I had a bottle about a week ago and thought it was fucking awesomely expressive in a drink now and hold kind of way.
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Drink and hold. Fuck yeah.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:


Virulent and vicious ad hominem argument. And certainly unjust. I'm not sure to whom, though.

By the way, I had the 07 Clisson yesterday. If too young means too young to be enjoyed, then I'm with VLM. That claim is empirically untrue with regard to this wine. If too young, means it won't have developed into something also good and different ("better" being one of those words used for culling and thus not interesting to me), after some years and perhaps more than VLM stipulates, I think that claim is also false
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I wasn't thinking virulent or vicious - Nathan is a gentleman, actually. But I don't think I ever had a discussion with Mark where I didn't get the feeling he was quarelling with some unseen third person and replying to me just by mistake.

People are fascinating in their diversity and taste in wine is one facet of this characteristic. For my part, I just don't like young Muscadet right out of the bottle. It's got to have some years or a big chunk of air time - then it can be engrossing. Same with young German Riesling. Must be genetic.
 
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