Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Speaking as a systems analyst kind of guy, this strikes me as odd.
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Brun Beaujolais and Ppire going back to Regular Cork
- Thread starter Joe Dressner
- Start date
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:
Cork TaintI can't see the phrase "cork taint" without thinking of what is probably my favorite Mr. Show skit. You'll have to search the youtubes for "taint magazine" for it, as my video posting skills aren't up to the task. But it is worth it, and priceless...
Cheers,
Kevin
Great skit. Amazing show. THC helps.
lars makie
lars makie
My favorite Mr. Show skitoriginally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:
Cork TaintI can't see the phrase "cork taint" without thinking of what is probably my favorite Mr. Show skit. You'll have to search the youtubes for "taint magazine" for it, as my video posting skills aren't up to the task. But it is worth it, and priceless...
Cheers,
Kevin
Great skit. Amazing show. THC helps.
Kevin Roberts
Kevin Roberts
originally posted by lars makie:
My favorite Mr. Show skitoriginally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:
Cork TaintI can't see the phrase "cork taint" without thinking of what is probably my favorite Mr. Show skit. You'll have to search the youtubes for "taint magazine" for it, as my video posting skills aren't up to the task. But it is worth it, and priceless...
Cheers,
Kevin
Great skit. Amazing show. THC helps.
Yes!!!
I'm also a strong proponent of "America's going to blow up the Moon."
"We have the technology, the time is now, children are our future."
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:
Cork TaintI can't see the phrase "cork taint" without thinking of what is probably my favorite Mr. Show skit. You'll have to search the youtubes for "taint magazine" for it, as my video posting skills aren't up to the task. But it is worth it, and priceless...
Cheers,
Kevin
Great skit. Amazing show. THC helps.
I love the two opposing political advertisement style sketches done by those two guys who just hate each other. Too lazy to link.
Is THC like TCA?
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:
Cork TaintI can't see the phrase "cork taint" without thinking of what is probably my favorite Mr. Show skit. You'll have to search the youtubes for "taint magazine" for it, as my video posting skills aren't up to the task. But it is worth it, and priceless...
Cheers,
Kevin
Couldn't find the link, but brought me to a nice rendition of Magazine's 'Song from under the floorboards' - thank you!
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Speaking as a systems analyst kind of guy, this strikes me as odd.originally posted by Thor:
Apparently, the little pocket of oxygen (plus dissolved oxygen) at bottling that's OK for cork-finished wines is not always enough for screwcaps with the stronger type of liner...
I was also wondering about that. Why not?
Also, if the desired interaction is only with oxygen trapped between the cork and the wine, then wine ought never to be bottled with inert gas, right? I figured that minute exchange with the outside was important because that would allow the inert gas to be eventually replaced with oxygen...
Finally, are screwcapped bottles designed to be slightly smaller than cork bottles? Otherwise, the lack of a cork would mean roughly twice the amount of air between the wine and the seal, accelerating the ageing (and, on the positive side, mitigating reduction?).
Oliver McCrum
Oliver McCrum
Every bottling machine I've seen recently either pulls a vacuum or sparges with nitrogen before the cork is inserted, I think the idea is generally to avoid any 'bicycle pump' action when the cork is inserted. For screwcaps the headspace is just sparged with nitrogen.
I'm not qualified to describe the relevant chemistry...so Oswaldo & Jeff, I can't help you here.
And yes, screwcap-ready bottles are (ideally) designed with a smaller headspace in mind, which means they're very slightly smaller. Of course, as with anything bottle-related there's immense variation.
And yes, screwcap-ready bottles are (ideally) designed with a smaller headspace in mind, which means they're very slightly smaller. Of course, as with anything bottle-related there's immense variation.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
So, per Oliver, there is no oxygen in the headspace, just (spargey) nitrogen. What is reacting, then?originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Speaking as a systems analyst kind of guy, this strikes me as odd.originally posted by Thor:
Apparently, the little pocket of oxygen (plus dissolved oxygen) at bottling that's OK for cork-finished wines is not always enough for screwcaps with the stronger type of liner...
I have to say, I've discussed this topic elsewhere to the point I can't stand it anymore and am happy to seal wine with olive oil in amphorae. Not the fault of anyone here, but I am on the "cork vs. screwcap listserve."
Anyhow, when you compress a cork you squeeze air out.
Anyhow, when you compress a cork you squeeze air out.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Try acupuncture.
Kevin Roberts
Kevin Roberts
originally posted by MarkS:
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:
Cork TaintI can't see the phrase "cork taint" without thinking of what is probably my favorite Mr. Show skit. You'll have to search the youtubes for "taint magazine" for it, as my video posting skills aren't up to the task. But it is worth it, and priceless...
Cheers,
Kevin
Couldn't find the link, but brought me to a nice rendition of Magazine's 'Song from under the floorboards' - thank you!
must sign in for dirty jokes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anm44OEkFFk
Enjoy!
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
So might reduction be reduced if there was more air left under the screwcap? Lower fill?
Jay "not on the listserv" Miller
Jay "not on the listserv" Miller
As I understand it -- always perilous -- there's oxygen in the wine, and there's oxygen in the cork. Both emerge, eventually. With screwcaps, there isn't the latter, and apparently that is enough to lead to the reductive environment that imperils screwcaps with the tin liner. But this is really all beyond my skill, here; I was 6.1, not 5. I hate to give the money guy fits.So, per Oliver, there is no oxygen in the headspace, just (spargey) nitrogen. What is reacting, then?
As I understand it, the answer is "we don't know."So might reduction be reduced if there was more air left under the screwcap? Lower fill?
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Hm. Per Listserv Joe, there is not so much oxygen in the cork after having been squashed into the neck. That reaction is treading a mighty fine line if it is depending on oxygen in solution + Avogadro's thimbleful of molecules from the cork.originally posted by Thor:
As I understand it -- always perilous -- there's oxygen in the wine, and there's oxygen in the cork. Both emerge, eventually. With screwcaps, there isn't the latter, and apparently that is enough to lead to the reductive environment that imperils screwcaps with the tin liner.
Unless these reactions depend on really tiny amounts of substance, something does not sound right with this line of reasoning.
As I said, I can't adjudicate the chemistry. All I know is that, under study, corks don't show nearly the level of reduction that screwcaps do, especially with age, and that the possible oxygen sources of cork-finished bottles are known (wine, headspace, cork) and screwcap-finished bottles are also known (wine, headspace). You may select from possible factors to find the reason for the variance that suits you. It has been suggested to me that "tiny amounts" are significant, but I don't know either way.
originally posted by Thor:
As I said, I can't adjudicate the chemistry. All I know is that, under study, corks don't show nearly the level of reduction that screwcaps do, especially with age, and that the possible oxygen sources of cork-finished bottles are known (wine, headspace, cork) and screwcap-finished bottles are also known (wine, headspace). You may select from possible factors to find the reason for the variance that suits you. It has been suggested to me that "tiny amounts" are significant, but I don't know either way.
I don't think that we have to look any farther than the fact that most corks allow some amount of oxygen ingress to explain the lack of reduction under cork. Then again, maybe I don't fully apprehend the complexities of the situation. [insert proper emoticon here]
Mark Lipton