Recent tastes

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Almost as much as creosote and WOTN.

But, if I know what creosote smells like and I smell something similar in the wine why mayn't I call it out?

And, is it the abbreviation you don't like or the fact that people are voting on wines (thus creating winners and losers out of non-competing wines)?

 

[Lyle Fass]

I am pro-acronym but am against voting unless that is the point of the tasting. But I don't go to those tastings because of that whole thing anyway. So I guess I am against voting.

Competition is a fact of life, whether we like it or not, and our beloved poor wines, thank goodness they don't have emotions or thoughts, should not be compared. Especially when it's pointless. Oh yeah the Overnoy Vin Jaune was the WOTN, but the '78 Domaine de Chevalier was a close 2nd, and in 3rd was a lovely bottle of 2004 Puzelat P'tit Tannique. WTF does that accomplish? All good wines, vastly different, but the Vin Jaune is not the WOTN. But I am sure this has been talked about ad nauseam.

What does creosote smell like? I have never encountered any in my daily life, ever. Watch out, you might trip over the steaming pile of creosote. That sentence has never been uttered in my life, till just now.

 

[Thor]

Lyle, I used to have to burn/clean creosote from our chimney every few weeks, growing up, and so I'm well aware of what it smells like. Just because you're a gangsta urbanite, don't mock those of us who burned trees and liked it. Outdoor plumbing, overalls, and all...

 

[Tom Glasgow]

originally posted by Thor:
Lyle, I used to have to burn/clean creosote from our chimney every few weeks, growing up, and so I'm well aware of what it smells like. Just because you're a gangsta urbanite, don't mock those of us who burned trees and liked it. Outdoor plumbing, overalls, and all...

And walked ten miles to school each way.

 

[Thor]

Uphill!

 

[MLipton]

What does creosote smell like? I have never encountered any in my daily life, ever. Watch out, you might trip over the steaming pile of creosote. That sentence has never been uttered in my life, till just now.

Lyle,
Ever smelled a railroad tie on a hot day? They're made of pine or red cedar or something that's been soaked in creosote to keep varmints from noshing on the wood. Creosote to me is located at the tar/pine nexus. There are also creosote bushes in the desert SW, but despite my having knelt to smell some of the suckers, I can't say that they really smell like creosote.

Mark Lipton

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Oh yeah the Overnoy Vin Jaune was the WOTN, but the '78 Domaine de Chevalier was a close 2nd, and in 3rd was a lovely bottle of 2004 Puzelat P'tit Tannique. WTF does that accomplish? All good wines, vastly different, but the Vin Jaune is not the WOTN.

I think voting for the WOTN is a social function among the participants. It's certainly not an objective assessment of the ideal forms of the wines.

...Which is what you seem to be doing since your post seems to take it as an article of faith that the DDC is "better" than the others.

And, yes, this has been talked about at length. Recently, even.

What does creosote smell like? I have never encountered any in my daily life, ever.

As Thor explained, the most common form of creosote is the smoky, black, greasy build-up that happens dangerously in chimneys but can be tasted on your backyard grill and other places where things don't burn hot enough. There is also a creosote bush, no longer commonly-used in salves and elixirs but you can still smell it in Larrea tea.

 

[Joel Stewart]

originally posted by MLipton:

What does creosote smell like? I have never encountered any in my daily life, ever. Watch out, you might trip over the steaming pile of creosote. That sentence has never been uttered in my life, till just now.

Lyle,
Ever smelled a railroad tie on a hot day? They're made of pine or red cedar or something that's been soaked in creosote to keep varmints from noshing on the wood.

Close....but it's not to keep ties from being eaten. It's a way to make one of the cheaper materials available last, that's all. Ask me....I worked on a section crew during the summer to make college money. (I think there's a t-shirt that says about the same thing.) Soak wood in creosote and watch it last...and last...and last. Totally water repellent.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Joel Stewart:

originally posted by MLipton:

What does creosote smell like? I have never encountered any in my daily life, ever. Watch out, you might trip over the steaming pile of creosote. That sentence has never been uttered in my life, till just now.

Lyle,
Ever smelled a railroad tie on a hot day? They're made of pine or red cedar or something that's been soaked in creosote to keep varmints from noshing on the wood.

Close....but it's not to keep ties from being eaten. It's a way to make one of the cheaper materials available last, that's all. Ask me....I worked on a section crew during the summer to make college money. (I think there's a t-shirt that says about the same thing.) Soak wood in creosote and watch it last...and last...and last. Totally water repellent.

Joel,
Sorry, I was indulging in a bit of humorous description. Creosote prevents dry rot (and wet rot, too) and thereby extends the lifetime of the wood. The molds responsible for rot were the varmints I was referring to.

Mark Lipton

 

[Joel Stewart]

No worries, Mark....I was just speaking for the railroad tie preservation society. (Let me tell you about wrist-roll spike driving next time.)

Aside from planting dynamite charges up behind Mt. Baldy in Claremont for tungsten, and running into the occasional sidewinder, working on the railroad was probably the most fun job I ever had as a youngster.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Joel Stewart:
No worries, Mark....I was just speaking for the railroad tie preservation society. (Let me tell you about wrist-roll spike driving next time.)

Joel,
As a fellow member of the RRTPS, let me tell you of a little project I indulged in. About 15 years ago, I came back from a trip to Kyoto and decided to tear up the lawn in the back yard and attempt to simulate a kaiyū-shiki here in flyover country. As part of my plan, I wanted to create a planter for growing herbs, so I constructed one using salvaged railroad ties cut to length. Now, 15 years later, the ties have taken on a great weathered look (and are now quite fragile).

Aside from planting dynamite charges up behind Mt. Baldy in Claremont for tungsten, and running into the occasional sidewinder, working on the railroad was probably the most fun job I ever had as a youngster.

Cool! I went to college in Claremont and got to see Mt. Baldy one out of every four days on average when the pollution abated. I didn't know that there was tungsten in them thar hills.

Mark Lipton

 

[mark meyer]

originally posted by Joel Stewart:
No worries, Mark....I was just speaking for the railroad tie preservation society. (Let me tell you about wrist-roll spike driving next time.)

Aside from planting dynamite charges up behind Mt. Baldy in Claremont for tungsten, and running into the occasional sidewinder, working on the railroad was probably the most fun job I ever had as a youngster.

Joel,

So you are the one responsible for those fake gold bars made from tungsten that have started to show up the gold vaults. Careful as the irate owners of these tungsten bars will be out for your hide.

mark

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Oh yeah the Overnoy Vin Jaune was the WOTN, but the '78 Domaine de Chevalier was a close 2nd, and in 3rd was a lovely bottle of 2004 Puzelat P'tit Tannique. WTF does that accomplish? All good wines, vastly different, but the Vin Jaune is not the WOTN.

I think voting for the WOTN is a social function among the participants. It's certainly not an objective assessment of the ideal forms of the wines.

We rarely do this in any sort of formal way, but in many cases, it's pretty clear. If 5-8 experienced wine drinkers agree that one wine is superior to the rest, I'm pretty sure that presents epistemological conditions that lead toward JTB.

This happened three times recently, Jay Miller's 2000 Verset, 2008 Vatan at the Chavignol dinner at Andre's, and 1999 Chevillon Les St. Georges with Francesca.

There were other excellent wines at all the dinners, but I've found that usually one will stand out from the pack.

 

[Lyle Fass]

originally posted by MLipton:

What does creosote smell like? I have never encountered any in my daily life, ever. Watch out, you might trip over the steaming pile of creosote. That sentence has never been uttered in my life, till just now.

Lyle,
Ever smelled a railroad tie on a hot day? They're made of pine or red cedar or something that's been soaked in creosote to keep varmints from noshing on the wood. Creosote to me is located at the tar/pine nexus. There are also creosote bushes in the desert SW, but despite my having knelt to smell some of the suckers, I can't say that they really smell like creosote.

Mark Lipton

I am such a New Yorker. That paragraph is like a foreign language to me. I've smelled shit and piss in the NYC subway. Count?

 

[Lyle Fass]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Oh yeah the Overnoy Vin Jaune was the WOTN, but the '78 Domaine de Chevalier was a close 2nd, and in 3rd was a lovely bottle of 2004 Puzelat P'tit Tannique. WTF does that accomplish? All good wines, vastly different, but the Vin Jaune is not the WOTN.

I think voting for the WOTN is a social function among the participants. It's certainly not an objective assessment of the ideal forms of the wines.

We rarely do this in any sort of formal way, but in many cases, it's pretty clear. If 5-8 experienced wine drinkers agree that one wine is superior to the rest, I'm pretty sure that presents epistemological conditions that lead toward JTB.

This happened three times recently, Jay Miller's 2000 Verset, 2008 Vatan at the Chavignol dinner at Andre's, and 1999 Chevillon Les St. Georges with Francesca.

There were other excellent wines at all the dinners, but I've found that usually one will stand out from the pack.

Can't it be POTN? Preference of the night?

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Lyle Fass:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Lyle Fass:
Oh yeah the Overnoy Vin Jaune was the WOTN, but the '78 Domaine de Chevalier was a close 2nd, and in 3rd was a lovely bottle of 2004 Puzelat P'tit Tannique. WTF does that accomplish? All good wines, vastly different, but the Vin Jaune is not the WOTN.

I think voting for the WOTN is a social function among the participants. It's certainly not an objective assessment of the ideal forms of the wines.

We rarely do this in any sort of formal way, but in many cases, it's pretty clear. If 5-8 experienced wine drinkers agree that one wine is superior to the rest, I'm pretty sure that presents epistemological conditions that lead toward JTB.

This happened three times recently, Jay Miller's 2000 Verset, 2008 Vatan at the Chavignol dinner at Andre's, and 1999 Chevillon Les St. Georges with Francesca.

There were other excellent wines at all the dinners, but I've found that usually one will stand out from the pack.

Can't it be POTN? Preference of the night?

No, I believe that emergent consensus among those qualified to know the difference can count as something close to truth.

Wine of the night, it is.

Doesn't exclude that it is also a preference, but that is subsumed.

 

[Steven Spielmann]

originally posted by VLM:

We rarely do this in any sort of formal way, but in many cases, it's pretty clear. If 5-8 experienced wine drinkers agree that one wine is superior to the rest, I'm pretty sure that presents epistemological conditions that lead toward JTB.

VLM,

I'm with you on critical standards in general, but there is one frustrating aspect to this: there are some cases where a subtle wine just doesn't show well among others, even though by itself it might be more enjoyable as a single bottle than any of them; and there are other cases where one wine will 'set up' others for better or worse by priming one's palate in certain ways. Maybe when you get far enough on the experience chain this stops happening, but it's been exasperating for me in the past.

 

[mark meyer]

There were other excellent wines at all the dinners, but I've found that usually one will stand out from the pack.

[/quote]

Monkey man you should drink in Oz with some of the locals then.I doubt what you think is the best wine would be what the locals claim to be the best of the night. The results would probably be more like day trading the Dow today.

mark

 

[Florida Jim]

Monkey man you should drink in Oz with some of the locals then.I doubt what you think is the best wine would be what the locals claim to be the best of the night. The results would probably be more like day trading the Dow today.

Fuck the Dow.
Fuck anybody who mentions it or thinks about it or imagines it.
And fuck anybody named Dow or Jones.
Not my Best, Jim

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Lyle Fass:

originally posted by MLipton:

What does creosote smell like? I have never encountered any in my daily life, ever. Watch out, you might trip over the steaming pile of creosote. That sentence has never been uttered in my life, till just now.

Lyle,
Ever smelled a railroad tie on a hot day? They're made of pine or red cedar or something that's been soaked in creosote to keep varmints from noshing on the wood. Creosote to me is located at the tar/pine nexus. There are also creosote bushes in the desert SW, but despite my having knelt to smell some of the suckers, I can't say that they really smell like creosote.

Mark Lipton

I am such a New Yorker. That paragraph is like a foreign language to me. I've smelled shit and piss in the NYC subway. Count?

Lyle - you got to get out (of the City) more!