Some tastes

originally posted by MarkS:
Alcohol in wine. i.e. Clos des Papes 2007 was 15,5%; 2005 was 14,5%; 1998 13,5%...
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Wow. That about says it all. Global Warming indeed!
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Pegau and some others follow this as well. More generally, I would say that one usually saw 13-13.5 through the 90s and since 03 one usually sees 14-15, with 15.5 not being unheard of. Having said that, taking Pegau as an example, and setting aside 03 and maybe 07, I don't think the wines taste hotter. That may speak to my progressive descent into alcoholic addled-ness. But I sometimes wonder if one tested earlier bottles, what one would find that alcohol rate was and whether the higher numbers are now due to increasing acceptance of reality.

On winemaking at Clos des Papes, I have not read of new oak, the appearance of Cambie, higher content of syrah, or any of the things Ignacio lists (they don't make special cuvees either). I'm quite willing to believe that things have changed, and maybe a desire for higher ripeness and sweetness is all it is. But, while the people who like it now argue that nothing has changed, the people who don't like it aren't able to describe what the change has been in elevage. This is not the case for other Parker darlings.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Some data for y'all
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

I don't have a memory for specific pointiness. Clos des Papes frequently got in the low to mid 90s up to the 01, back when the mid 90s was a really high score.
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'81 Clos des Papes - 92 (WA)
'90 Clos des Papes - 96 (WA)
'95 Clos des Papes - 92 (WA)
'00 Clos des Papes - 95 (WA)
'01 Clos des Papes - 95 (WA)
'05 Clos des Papes - 95 (WA)

This tracks pretty closely to his overall vintages ratings for the region:

'90 - 95
'95 - 90
'00 - 98
'01 - 96
'05 - 95

so, I don't see much evidence for an increase in pointiness associated with that estate. Stylistically, the wines may have changed, but numerically they haven't.

Mark Lipton
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what about '89? That is a great wine. As an aside '81 is my favorite Southern Rhone vintage.

Why the wines aren't that great now. Global warming? Higher alcohols? Cambieliciousness? In my experience Grenache and high alcohol don't mix so well. '03 got something very high I believe.

I think a good move would to bring in bulldozers and get rid of all the galets. That surely would drive alcohol levels down. Vines get enough damn sun as it is. Don't need it trapped anymore.
 
Check the hl/ha stats for Christoffel in '01 against, say, Eymael. Interesting reading, more so if you go back further before the sale.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
Check the hl/ha stats for Christoffel in '01 against, say, Eymael. Interesting reading, more so if you go back further before the sale.
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Ah, the yields strawman.

I just don't like Robert Eymael (bad visit in 2003 - less enjoyable than Weinbach). He seems like a used car salesman who also has some vineyard land to sell - probably right under the proposed bridge.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Mine wasn't Clos de Papes; I can't remember what it was now. Bought at about 30, sold at 40, spent the proceeds on Burgundy on sale at PC.

Maybe you just mean Clos dP.
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How is that even worth the hassle?

I guess if you hate the wine, it makes sense.

I've only sold wine to PC, never bought. Shady.

Funny thing is, the cabs I sold them 10 years ago are trading at the same price.
 
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by MLipton:
Some data for y'all
I think a good move would to bring in bulldozers and get rid of all the galets. That surely would drive alcohol levels down. Vines get enough damn sun as it is. Don't need it trapped anymore.
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Let's hope you don't take over Cambie's consulting burden. You'll finish the appelation good and proper.

The list Eric links to above is incomplete, but I don't know of a complete one and I certainly don't know better than that list, except that I know a couple of places that aren't there. One also has to distinguish among places to whom he talks, places for whom, essentially, he advises on a special cuvee, and places to whose winemaking he is integral. I don't know of any hard information about that. But certainly, if one judges from his own wines his favored style, one can see varying levels of his influence in a list like that.
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originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

The list Eric links to above is incomplete, but I don't know of a complete one and I certainly don't know better than that list, except that I know a couple of places that aren't there. One also has to distinguish among places to whom he talks, places for whom, essentially, he advises on a special cuvee, and places to whose winemaking he is integral. I don't know of any hard information about that. But certainly, if one judges from his own wines his favored style, one can see varying levels of his influence in a list like that.
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Yes, I am not up to date on many of those domaines, having not bought much of recent vintages, but Grand Tinel and Clos du Mont-Olivet haven't struck me as being overly spoofed. Another shortcoming of this list, though, is that there's no sense of how long M. Cambie has worked with any given domaine.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Mine wasn't Clos de Papes; I can't remember what it was now. Bought at about 30, sold at 40, spent the proceeds on Burgundy on sale at PC.

Maybe you just mean Clos dP.
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How is that even worth the hassle?

I guess if you hate the wine, it makes sense.

I've only sold wine to PC, never bought. Shady.

Funny thing is, the cabs I sold them 10 years ago are trading at the same price.
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Sold through (censored)'s commerce corner, no hassle. $400 of 15% wine into something we can enjoy is worthwhile in our world.

You are saying PC is shady? Tell me more.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

Sold through (censored)'s commerce corner, no hassle. $400 of 15% wine into something we can enjoy is worthwhile in our world.

You are saying PC is shady? Tell me more.
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Surely you've run into the PC threads in that other place? Lots of tales of unfulfilled pre-orders. Money gets returned in all the cases I've heard about, but non-delivery seems to be an issue with them.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
shitMonpertuis is on the list. Say it ain't so?
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Never been fond of them. Very modern at least through the last decade.
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Monpertuis... newer ones have provided very little pleasure to me...sad to see so many names on such a list...what would M. Rolland's list look like??
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
shitMonpertuis is on the list. Say it ain't so?
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Never been fond of them. Very modern at least through the last decade.
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Last vintage I tasted was 2004. Didn't seem to modern for me. Earthy, rustic, moderate alcohol, not dark as night, solid structure. How long has be been there?

Does Mr. Cambie eat the grapes himself to lower yields?
 
originally posted by Lyle Fass:


Does Mr. Cambie eat the grapes himself to lower yields?
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Perhaps he uses them to wash down a bunch of these:

dona15.jpg
 
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