originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
Does anyone find new oak flavors in a wine an appealing complement to any food pairing?
(Seriously, I want to know).
originally posted by Alice F.:
Chefs were going through the use of vanilla in savory food and I always hated it. Vanilla oaked wine does the same thing. If we're talking tannin, i just dont think tannin from wood is useful for anyting. pick the right fat and I think you can modify the dreadful effects.
And--about the pastrami---in orthodox households, soda was elixir with everything. But like oaked wines, I gave those up pretty young.
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
Does anyone find new oak flavors in a wine an appealing complement to any food pairing?
(Seriously, I want to know).
Oops, wrong thread.originally posted by Lou Kessler:
Full of shit, is that what deep depth means?originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
Wine bloggers are full of shit. Everyone knows that.originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
Why do presumably bona fide wine writers continue to propagate such fallacies?
On a related note: I've always wondered how wine writers get away with making things up...I rarely see sources cited in wine books. Does this strike anyone as a problem?
Bloggers are the worst sinners in this respect. It's a disgrace. No sources cited anywhere. Just the odd junket acknowledgment. There's no central regulating authority to keep them in check. A sort of Federal Reserve of wine blogging is needed. I nominate Ian for the post. He's the only one that can be trusted.
Except here. We have deep depth.
Growing up I always heard Cabernet (especially Bordeaux) for steak. Perhaps "conventional wisdom" was the wrong term to use. Maybe "stereotypical "accompaniment?"originally posted by SFJoe:
Even Hugh Johnson, to whom you might expect it to occur, doesn't suggest Bordeaux for steak. I would nominate him as the conventional wisdom on the subject.originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
A large part of the problem is that conventional wisdom told people that Bordeaux was the classic steak pairing. When the styles of the wines began to change the conventional wisdom should have as well, but as not to confuse anyone it didn't as far I can tell. Add in that steak houses tend to be dens of masculine overcompensation it's more the price of wine that matches with the steak, rather than the wines themselves.
Gotta quibble, the classic accompaniment to Bordeaux, at least from the left bank, is lamb. Paulliac lamb.
What I think is really funny is that folks here are let a generalization about wood slide right on by, but dare to generalize about vintage or something else and the knives are out.
originally posted by MarkS:
What I think is really funny is that folks here are let a generalization about wood slide right on by, but dare to generalize about vintage or something else and the knives are out.
I'm not letting anything slide, and I think the kind folks here pick their battles about generalizations. It seems if you agree within the normal range of hipster opinion, you are fine. But if you vary by degrees, you will get scalded.
Why is there no love for red Burgundy and beef?? This has always worked for me, but really more the wine for chopped steak (hamburgers) than whole steaks, but I could see that whole syrah thing working as well (along with sangio-based wines).
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Alice F.:
Chefs were going through the use of vanilla in savory food and I always hated it. Vanilla oaked wine does the same thing. If we're talking tannin, i just dont think tannin from wood is useful for anyting. pick the right fat and I think you can modify the dreadful effects.
And--about the pastrami---in orthodox households, soda was elixir with everything. But like oaked wines, I gave those up pretty young.
A common mistake when thinking of oak is that it is all vanilla.
Did you give up Foucault? Dujac? DRC?
In conjunction with cabernet and family, I think the vanilla aspect may be more pronounced, but that has a lot to do with the kind of oak that folks have access to, how long they dry the staves, etc. etc.
Oak is variable. Highly. To not understand is to be missing something very important about wine.
Using oak barrels is not the issue, mis-use and mis-understanding is.
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
A large part of the problem is that conventional wisdom told people that Bordeaux was the classic steak pairing. When the styles of the wines began to change the conventional wisdom should have as well, but as not to confuse anyone it didn't as far I can tell. Add in that steak houses tend to be dens of masculine overcompensation it's more the price of wine that matches with the steak, rather than the wines themselves.
Gotta quibble, the classic accompaniment to Bordeaux, at least from the left bank, is lamb. Paulliac lamb.
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Alice F.:
Chefs were going through the use of vanilla in savory food and I always hated it. Vanilla oaked wine does the same thing. If we're talking tannin, i just dont think tannin from wood is useful for anyting. pick the right fat and I think you can modify the dreadful effects.
And--about the pastrami---in orthodox households, soda was elixir with everything. But like oaked wines, I gave those up pretty young.
A common mistake when thinking of oak is that it is all vanilla.
Did you give up Foucault? Dujac? DRC?
In conjunction with cabernet and family, I think the vanilla aspect may be more pronounced, but that has a lot to do with the kind of oak that folks have access to, how long they dry the staves, etc. etc.
Oak is variable. Highly. To not understand is to be missing something very important about wine.
Using oak barrels is not the issue, mis-use and mis-understanding is.
Yes of course, Nathan. You are right...it is an unfair generalization to ascribe to new oak only negative qualities when there are instances when its use is justifiable, though I tend to find those uses rather uncommon.
I saw a Blumenthal recipe once that kept the steak at something like 120 or 130F for 24 hours. Seemed like the perfect recipe for killing off your customers.originally posted by MLipton:
*An interesting choice might be the Hester Blumenthal recipe that sears the roast with a blowtorch followed by slow roasting at 150F. I don't have the apparatus for that approach, though.
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
I was wondering...This notion that big, oaky, extracted, tannic wines are a good match for grilled steak...does anyone actually believe this?
originally posted by MLipton:
Hester Blumenthal
originally posted by SFJoe:
I saw a Blumenthal recipe once that kept the steak at something like 120 or 130F for 24 hours. Seemed like the perfect recipe for killing off your customers.originally posted by MLipton:
*An interesting choice might be the Hester Blumenthal recipe that sears the roast with a blowtorch followed by slow roasting at 150F. I don't have the apparatus for that approach, though.
originally posted by SFJoe:
I saw a Blumenthal recipe once that kept the steak at something like 120 or 130F for 24 hours. Seemed like the perfect recipe for killing off your customers.originally posted by MLipton:
*An interesting choice might be the Hester Blumenthal recipe that sears the roast with a blowtorch followed by slow roasting at 150F. I don't have the apparatus for that approach, though.
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by MLipton:
Hester Blumenthal
Everybody's women these days!
Back in the Yore Epoch on the WLDG, one of Plotnicki's better trolls -- I seem to recall that I bit, and over a decade later I'm still ashamed -- was an insistence that the (then) widespread planking of fish and meat made those dishes perfect with the lavishly-oaked wines that were also in vogue. Whether or not he was serious, there were some that agreed, and I think they were serious.Does anyone find new oak flavors in a wine an appealing complement to any food pairing? (Seriously, I want to know).
originally posted by Bwood:
I think it's a particularly bad pairing if the wine is also soft, like many in that style. I think steak needs a wine with very good acidity. I prefer something like a Montevertine wine or a Felsina Rancia with steak, and I'd rather have a Coudert wine with steak than a soft cab.
originally posted by SFJoe:
I saw a Blumenthal recipe once that kept the steak at something like 120 or 130F for 24 hours. Seemed like the perfect recipe for killing off your customers.originally posted by MLipton:
*An interesting choice might be the Hester Blumenthal recipe that sears the roast with a blowtorch followed by slow roasting at 150F. I don't have the apparatus for that approach, though.