Controversial(?) Burgundy Query

Nicolas Mestre

Nicolas Mestre
I've been thinking about Burgundy and have been trying to formulate an argument based on some research I have done. There is so much conflicting data that I can't seem to get a clear grasp on the matter. I thought that a conversation on the matter might be helpful.

My theory is that terroir as we understand it today is a modern concept that developed rather late in the viticultural history of Burgundy (20th Century). I would claim that the extreme fracturing of agricultural plots into climats is a vestige of Roman land use or post-Roman/very early medieval trends in land use based on property lines (that is, the land was divided up into small parcels very early - in place by the 2nd century - according to the needs of free citizens/colonists of late antique society) and that the supposed classification of vineyards by the Cistercians (often considered the pioneers of this endeavor?) is a myth. In fact, I would contend that the Cistercians were responsible for consolidation of smaller lieu-dits into more regular (and sizeable) climats (ie Clos de Vougeot). The notion that the monks were out amongst the vineyards tasting the soil in order to demarcate one terroir from another appears to be a fantasy conjured up by wine writers in the mid 20th century and perpetuated to this day.

In an article in the 2001 edition of the Annals de Bourgogne, one scholar posits that there is no evidence whatsoever that the monks at Citeaux ever planted a single vine, rather they acquired them through tithes and gifts from free peasants concerned about whether or not their souls were safe from eternal damnation.

Does this mean that terroir as we conceive of it today in Burgundy is largely self-fulfilling? We have bought into the idea that Morey tastes different than Chambolle, but is this in any way complicated by the fact that commune boundaries were often determined based on property lines rather than geological difference?
 
the supposed classification of vineyards by the Cistercians (often considered the pioneers of this endeavor?) is a myth...The notion that the monks were out amongst the vineyards tasting the soil in order to demarcate one terroir from another appears to be a fantasy conjured up by wine writers in the mid 20th century and perpetuated to this day.

I have no idea about the truth of the claim but it sounds like a good book if there is some evidence to support your argument.
 
I'm the least scholarly of the chatters here, but my understanding of the terroir idea is that it denotes an aspect of a wine's identity that, while invoked by the named patch of land the grapes are grown on, isn't really geological in nature. It's more an integrated expression of all the environmental factors affecting the grapes, as distinct from the anthropogenic factors, including precipitation, aspect, micro-climate, soil composition, water table depth, as well as interactive effects among these factors. The name of the vineyard or commune serves as a shorthand for this more detailed aspect of the grapes'/wine's identity, so it's easy, though inaccurate, to think of the environmental identity just in terms of geology.

But this point, even if it's true, might be beside the point of the discussion as you're framing it up.
 
Wasn't there a book published in the last few years that detailed the mythmaking in French wines. I vaguely recall references to French fascism and nationalism contributing to the myths.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

French fascism?

Historian Jacques Barzun, in "From Dawn to Decadence," talks about how another historian said if you had traveled back in time and told him in the early 1900s that a European country would commit genocide against the Jews he would have blamed the French.
Barzun was born in France, by the way.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Nicolas,

I suggest you start your work in the Burgundy chapters here:

I have a copy of this book. Very useful. Thanks for reminding me, Joe.

Side note: Does anyone know how widespread Pinot Noir and Chardonnay plantings were in the Cote d'Or prior to phylloxera? I presume that the acreage devoted to Gamay and other less "noble" varieties (did I get that right Professor?) was still significant before the wholesale replanting of the vineyards in the 20th century?
 
I think I vaguely recall an anecdote about a duke banning gamay from much of Burgundy, but that is likely just the kind of myth you're looking to get away from.
 
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Nicolas,

I suggest you start your work in the Burgundy chapters here:

I have a copy of this book. Very useful. Thanks for reminding me, Joe.

Side note: Does anyone know how widespread Pinot Noir and Chardonnay plantings were in the Cote d'Or prior to phylloxera? I presume that the acreage devoted to Gamay and other less "noble" varieties (did I get that right Professor?) was still significant before the wholesale replanting of the vineyards in the 20th century?

From what I've read (Christy Campbell's "Phylloxera" for instance) there was quite a bit more diversity in the Cote d'Or prior to phylloxera, probably both in clonal selection of Pinot Noir and other varieties.

Mark Lipton
 
How closely related are the grape variety and the terroir?

For example, if Le Musigny was classified at a certain point in history based on its wines made from Pinot Noir and who knows what else, is the classification just as valid now even though it has been replanted with only one variety?
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I'm the least scholarly of the chatters here, but my understanding of the terroir idea is that it denotes an aspect of a wine's identity that, while invoked by the named patch of land the grapes are grown on, isn't really geological in nature. It's more an integrated expression of all the environmental factors affecting the grapes, as distinct from the anthropogenic factors, including precipitation, aspect, micro-climate, soil composition, water table depth, as well as interactive effects among these factors. The name of the vineyard or commune serves as a shorthand for this more detailed aspect of the grapes'/wine's identity, so it's easy, though inaccurate, to think of the environmental identity just in terms of geology.

But "patches" are legal constructions, no? So the kinds of elements Nicolas is identifying are fundamental to our understanding of the boundaries of all of those environmental factors you're calling terroir.

Wilson's book looks like it gets at many of these elements; to my mind, Braudel's work on landscape in La Mditerrane did most of the conceptual heavy lifting here.
 
Some of the late 19C tracts in Germany are quite terroiristic, I understand. And these were not just tax documents.
 
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Nicolas,

I suggest you start your work in the Burgundy chapters here:

I have a copy of this book. Very useful. Thanks for reminding me, Joe.

Side note: Does anyone know how widespread Pinot Noir and Chardonnay plantings were in the Cote d'Or prior to phylloxera? I presume that the acreage devoted to Gamay and other less "noble" varieties (did I get that right Professor?) was still significant before the wholesale replanting of the vineyards in the 20th century?

Great question. Didn't Gamay show up in the Cote d'Or in abundance following the reassignment of vineyard ownership after the revolution? But what did it replace - perhaps the good old pinot noir ?
 
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