Bottle variation

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Nicolas Mestre

Nicolas Mestre
Out of curiosity (because the issue seems to come up quite often in these parts lately), what is the tolerance for bottle variation?

"Natural" wines, like other agricultural products with limited manipulation, tend towards variation.

When such a wine deviates from its best, we are disappointed by it (presumably).

How do you differentiate from a "bad" bottle and one that is just not showing great at a given moment in time?
 
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre: Bottle variation what is the tolerance for bottle variation?
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Nicolas, Taking this theme a step further, some people aren't tolerant even of variation within the bottle.

Back in Prodigy days, a prominent authentic wine expert, George Buehler, was a regular poster. He was known to speak in favor of shaking the bottle before serving so as to equalize all of the components.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre: How do you differentiate from a "bad" bottle and one that is just not showing great at a given moment in time?
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Experience?

(I.E. spending more money)
 
There are some flavors that are difficult to attribute to developmental stage - vinigary, oxidative (in many wines), grossly bretty - that to me would distinguish a given bottle as 'off,' not just in an awkward place.

An indicator of bottle variation for me would be two bottles of the same wine from the same source opened within a short time of one another with distinct differences in taste.
 
"The expectation of roughly equivalent enjoyment" is my threshold tolerance (unless it's all upside). If a single bottle disappoints here and there, OK. If it gets to where I can't reliably open a wine about which I've been enthusiastic and expect to re-experience that enthusiasm without having to open multiple bottles, I'm no longer interested. And if it happens over multiple vintages, I'm probably off that producer for good, barring significant change. If we lived in a world with limited choices, maybe I'd be more tolerant. But it's not like we lack choices.

Oh, and the variation has to come from the wine, not (primarily) the closure. Thus, when I had to dump out cases of a certain Rhne producer's wines because I didn't realize until too late that he was using synthetics, that's my fault; I should have checked.

That said, I've probably only put a half-dozen producers on the do-not-buy list due to unacceptable variation. Not really so many.
 
I don't think it's my job to support wineries (unless they want to pay me) for their microbiological 'experiments'. It's about two-strikes for me: one bottle may be off, but if it carries over into two, then the jury has spoken. There is just SO much wine out there, and my funds are limited, it does no good to focus on producers who cannot work out their 'issues'.
 
Yes, but over the short term it's usually a more controlled variation. It's the bio-bombs that I'm talking about here.
 
I've been thinking about Dard & Ribo. It strikes me that I have never had a single "off" bottle (though a retail customer of ours once returned a bottle).

We pick this wine up from a storage facility in NJ whose ambient temperature never exceeds 55 degrees and truck it to our facility which never goes above 61 degrees. We either use refrigerated trucks or dry trucks during cool periods.

I wonder if all the variation described is a result of improper handling/temperature variations.

I know of very few wine distributors who ship via reefer trucks domestically...
 
I differentiate when I know the wine already...when I don't, then it's guesswork, unless the wine is really obviously fucked up. I have nearly zero confidence using the terms "shut down", "closed", or "asleep". Usually, in such cases, I open something else and try the original wine a day later...oftentimes I am pleasantly surprised. (I do not apply the mollydooker shake approach at any time.)

In the end, and within reason, I actually appreciate some variation...it's a reminder to enjoy the singularity of the moment. If it's not working for you though, best open something else, no?
 
Ideally, every wine I drink tastes different the next time I drink the wine.

I change, the weather changes, the wine changes, my mood changes, my brain tumor acts up, I'm tired, I'm happy, I'm alert, I'm angry, the wine is having a bad day, I've eaten something that goes great with the wine, I've eaten something that destroys the wine, I'm with my wife and kids or I'm with some horrible blogger who makes definitive judgements about wine categories.

So many variables make my wine life so much richer.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart: I have nearly zero confidence using the terms "shut down", "closed", or "asleep". Usually, in such cases, I open something else and try the original wine a day later...oftentimes I am pleasantly surprised.
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Joel, I find it amusing how so many people deliver the "final word" for particular bottlings with the adjectives you cite.

It is good to hear someone like you express contrary sentiments to such often unfounded speculation.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Ideally, every wine I drink tastes different the next time I drink the wine.

I change, the weather changes, the wine changes, my mood changes, my brain tumor acts up, I'm tired, I'm happy, I'm alert, I'm angry, the wine is having a bad day, I've eaten something that goes great with the wine, I've eaten something that destroys the wine, I'm with my wife and kids or I'm with some horrible blogger who makes definitive judgements about wine categories.

So many variables make my wine life so much richer.
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Let's hear it for variation.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Thor:
I continue to sulfur in silence.
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In our dreams.

originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Ideally, every wine I drink tastes different the next time I drink the wine.

I change, the weather changes, the wine changes, my mood changes, my brain tumor acts up, I'm tired, I'm happy, I'm alert, I'm angry, the wine is having a bad day, I've eaten something that goes great with the wine, I've eaten something that destroys the wine, I'm with my wife and kids or I'm with some horrible blogger who makes definitive judgements about wine categories.

So many variables make my wine life so much richer.
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It's true that mood, company, pairing, hunger very palpably affect how I do or don't enjoy a wine. There are times when it's best just to steer clear of the stuff.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Ideally, every wine I drink tastes different the next time I drink the wine.

I change, the weather changes, the wine changes, my mood changes, my brain tumor acts up, I'm tired, I'm happy, I'm alert, I'm angry, the wine is having a bad day, I've eaten something that goes great with the wine, I've eaten something that destroys the wine, I'm with my wife and kids or I'm with some horrible blogger who makes definitive judgements about wine categories.

So many variables make my wine life so much richer.
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A long post by Mr Dressner that I can't honestly find fault with on any level.
Obviously I'm becoming less critical as I age.
 
I'm with Thor.
Not on the bad "sulfur" puns, but on how I react to inconsistency.
It's an organic thing that develops over time. And much of it is predicated on how I feel about the vigneron in question, and how much I've enjoyed the wines in the past. If its a favorite producer my tolerance for bottle variation and vintage variation runs pretty high. But even then, after too many disappointing bottles I'll move my money elsewhere.

Regards,
 
this really is a multivariable analysis much too complicated to be distilled (fermented?) to a single question.

What Joe says has merit, but I'm also more tolerant of variation in a $15 bottle than in a $70 bottle. I don't want to have to cross my fingers when I open a bottle of Barolo that was expensive to begin with, and I took the time to cellar extensively. Or if I feel that I do - it might factor into my decision on whether that process is all worth it.
 
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