Cory Cartwright in the NY Times!

Good question, Cory. I doubt they will. Claude Kolm did post a list of classified growth properties that still make wines in the traditional manner. However, that was 2-3(?) years ago so who knows which of those might have gone to the dark side. Those would be the ones I'd consider, if the bottle cost was reasonable ($40 or less).

That being said, the probability of me buying a current release Bordeaux costing more than $20 is only slightly more likely than showing up one day clean-shaven.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
30 is the new 12.
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I always use that as an excuse for my behavior.

You got good quotes, Cory.

A nice companion to Mike Steinberger's Burgundy vs Bordeaux piece in Slate.
 
I confess, last weekend I did pick up a bottle each of Chs. Loudenne, Lanessan, and Coufran, each at $20 or less, to see if there was anything interesting there. Back in the old days when I covered Bordeaux, I thought all three made decent or better wines. Will report on them when I've tasted. One of the reasons why I haven't bought any claret in many years is that I want an inexpensive wine (i.e., ~$20) that tastes like claret. I couldn't tell without tasting whether a wine was going to be faithful to my idea of what a claret should be or if it was going to be (to use a neutral term) new style, and the young clerks in the stores didn't understand what I was talking about because they'd never experienced traditional claret.

Another of the reasons why I lost interest in Bordeaux is that it became all about Merlot and I find Cabernet Sauvignon more interesting. Even in the Mdoc, the percentages of Merlot have greatly increased for most estates. (Now, I wonder who could be responsible for that?) Strangely, the only person I know who has made an issue of that change is Neal Rosenthal.

I think Larry dates my post on traditional estates as too recent, it was probably more like 5-8 years ago that I did it; I've lost complete touch with Bordeaux since then (2001 was my last trip to Bordeaux and I've done a few trade tastings since then, but I think 2004 was the last vintage for that).
 
I'm surprised that Eric got any good quotes from me. As my wife and Guilhaume can both attest, I'm one of the most akward people on the telephone in history.
 
We drank a 82 La Dominique Sunday night with rack of lamb. Wine was still in great shape and drank beautifully. Bordeauxs in the 80s had many good vintages and the wines were inexpensive. Then the public discovered other parts of France and along came Italy,& USA, many good wines & less expensive then Bordeaux. Then came the Aussie surge & spoofed wines in general. I remember buying Northern Rhones, Barberesco, etc because they were damn good wines and cheaper. Good burgs were never cheap. I still love good cab based wines. Nothing like them.
 
Quite a lot of things to respond to here.

Food and claret. Traditional Bordeaux, well aged, does not require 'heavy' food. So I think that point is less about Bordeaux as a region than Bordeaux (amongst others) as a style of wine.

Traditional vs. modern claret. Tasting through the '05 big guns, it's easy to see why Bordeaux is of less utility to both consumers and sommeliers nowadays; hence its seeming fall from grace.

Freshness. Great, old Bordeaux is fresh-tasting; cf '81 La Mission.

Alternatives. I'm not an old geezer but even in the last decade the boundaries of wine seem to have been extended further, partly due to more conscientious and adventurous winemakers, but also due to better access for the masses. People now have more gods to choose from, so it's not surprising the temple of Gironde is less packed.

I still like well made, mature claret, but those are harder to find as current stocks get drunk up and fewer are being made each year, it seems. A 2004 Ch. Gloria from 375ml last night was pretty abject with pork kebabs. What I would have given for something lighter and leafier, with more spring on the palate.
 
originally posted by Lou Kessler:
PricingWe drank a 82 La Dominique Sunday night with rack of lamb. Wine was still in great shape and drank beautifully. Bordeauxs in the 80s had many good vintages and the wines were inexpensive. Then the public discovered other parts of France and along came Italy,& USA, many good wines & less expensive then Bordeaux. Then came the Aussie surge & spoofed wines in general. I remember buying Northern Rhones, Barberesco, etc because they were damn good wines and cheaper. Good burgs were never cheap. I still love good cab based wines. Nothing like them.
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Sigh, I have fond memories of 1982 La Dominique. I don't suppose they're still making it that way anymore?

And unspoofy cabernet based wine can be beautiful. Not as beautiful as Burgundy of course, but beautiful nonetheless :)
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
The picture is blurry but I am pretty sure that is a bottle of ESJ in the background.
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The picture I see has a bottle of Ch. Musar right up front.
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Musar yes, but I'm pretty sure it's the Musar Cuvee Reserve rather than Chateau Musar. And that's definitely an ESJ label on the shelf to his right.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
I know plenty of young people who still love big, rich Aussie and Cali wines, so modern Bordeaux are probably too wimpy for them.

A 20-something co-worker of mine is on vacation in Napa right now, with numerous appointments at places where a mere mention of the name invokes the ire of the Politburo.
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If Bordeaux were more stylistically divergent from Napa and Australia, maybe it would find its own audience. As it is, it can seem like the backwards cousin to those.
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Word!
 
The down under wines salea have fallen off tremendously. Just a fact. We do hear more from people in the store who don't like too much oak, and cab shouldn't taste like Port.
 
This is a depressing read because the first couple of wines that blew my mind were Bords. They were not big...just elegant...and big that way.
 
Fickle as a pickle
I used to like Bordeaux,
now no mo.
I used to supp Medoc,
but now I have to stop,
po' mo' fo.
 
As penance for participating in this piece people will be making me drink Bordeaux for a long time and at some point I feel I will be proven horribly wrong and will champion Bordeaux for years. Now to track down some Jaugaret. (I actually believe there are some great Bordeaux producers out there. The main thrust of the interview was to gauge Bordeaux's perception amongst people my age.)
 
Yeah, you kinda screwed this one up. The point is to claim that your generation isn't drinking [name of some wine you actually like, but can't afford].
 
So, who wants to take a stab at a current list of Bordeaux producers that haven't yet succumbed to the Dark Side of the Force? Most of my experience is almost as out-of-date as Claude's, but I can contribute the following:

Cantemerle
Trotanoy, and I guess the rest of the Moueix stable, yadda yadda.
the Belair-Canon-Magdelaine trinity
Vieux-Chateau-Certan
Behere
Bourgneuf

Open questions:

Pichon-Lalande: not long ago would have made it on my list above, but I seem to remember reading ominous things about "improvements."
Haut-Bailly: has made some of my favorite Bordeaux ever, but what's with the last few vintages getting high-90s scores from (censored)? And who will ever bother finding out at those prices??
Gruaud-Larose: perhaps promising. Didn't (censored) complain a few years ago that the wines weren't what they used to be? Yum!
Cheval-Blanc and Haut-Brion: formerly my favorite first growths, now...? who knows, who cares? About as relevant as putting together one of those lists of actresses and supermodels you're allowed to sleep with if you have the opportunity.
 
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