In Search of Decent, Traditional Claret

I recently had the '05 and '06 from Gressier Grand Poujeaux (somehow related to Chasse-Spleen IIRC) which seemed nice (despite higher alcohol levels than old style Claret; 13,5 and 12,5 respectively). But they didn't seem annoyingly marked by oak, and even the '05 seemed refreshing and crisp rather than powerful and cloying. But I wasn't even born in the "unspoofy era" of Bordeaux so my experiences should not be trusted.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
....how much real dirt under Lagrange?

This 00 doesn't taste too bad. For one, silk not gloss.
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the one in st julien ? quite enough
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
....how much real dirt under Lagrange?

This 00 doesn't taste too bad. For one, silk not gloss.
Click to expand...

the one in st julien ? quite enough
Click to expand...

st julien...is it good dirt? tasted good, but i didn't read the ingredients label beforehand.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
...

This is probably down to personal taste; the choice between a clean and balanced wine and a wine with known imprefections but rich in soil complexity is a toss-up.
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I don't quite understand this dichotomy. If by "soil complexity" you mean flavors and complexity that are due to the vineyard soil, then clean and balanced wines can certainly reflect them; Chablis and Mosel offer plenty of examples. If "known imperfections" means what squeaky-clean enologists would call flaws (brett, VA, mercaptans, etc.), then it could be argued that these (in sufficient concentration) actually cover up the flavor of the terroir.
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not if there isn't enough dirt in the first place, you can't make something out of nothing
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Eh? Is someone making hydroponic wine?
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Lagrange?

For one, silk not gloss.
Click to expand...
Malo in barrel in 2000 (and for some years before).
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that actually makes a lot of sense

still, a very good 2000
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
...

This is probably down to personal taste; the choice between a clean and balanced wine and a wine with known imprefections but rich in soil complexity is a toss-up.
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand this dichotomy. If by "soil complexity" you mean flavors and complexity that are due to the vineyard soil, then clean and balanced wines can certainly reflect them; Chablis and Mosel offer plenty of examples. If "known imperfections" means what squeaky-clean enologists would call flaws (brett, VA, mercaptans, etc.), then it could be argued that these (in sufficient concentration) actually cover up the flavor of the terroir.
Click to expand...

not if there isn't enough dirt in the first place, you can't make something out of nothing
Click to expand...

Eh? Is someone making hydroponic wine?
Click to expand...

it's a step function!
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
....how much real dirt under Lagrange?

This 00 doesn't taste too bad. For one, silk not gloss.
Click to expand...

the one in st julien ? quite enough
Click to expand...

st julien...is it good dirt? tasted good, but i didn't read the ingredients label beforehand.
Click to expand...

we are in the dark here, US regulations do not require ingredients to be listed.

but Texier made something called "st julien" which seemed to contain dirt, does that help ?
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Of course they change from year to year, Victor, but my interpretation is that these figures represent the vineyard plantation percentages, not what's actually in this wine.
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Sorry - you're entirely correct, but I had understood your figures to represent blends, not the 'encpagement'. The old figures appear indeed in the 1991 edition of David Peppercorn's Bordeaux. The change seems to stem from the increase in vineyard surface - from 50 hectares 20 years ago to 60 hectares now.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Lagrange?

For one, silk not gloss.
Click to expand...
Malo in barrel in 2000 (and for some years before).
Click to expand...

that actually makes a lot of sense

still, a very good 2000
Click to expand...

And a good bottle it was, for what it was. Some makeup and mascara, but tastefully applied....even though she was a he.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Did Cantemarle go to the dark side? I thought they used to be on this list.
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Not only did Cantemerle not go to the dark side, but recently (new owners I think) they seem to have made a deliberate decision to make the most ethereal, finessed claret they can. I realize this isn't fully old-school because claret was never intended to show finesse at such a young age, but it is certainly the polar opposite of the prevailing fruit-gobbed, "on steroids" aesthetic for Bordeaux.
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by .sasha:
they are still very good
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that's good news! haven't had a bottle for a long time, and definitely not a recent vintage...
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I've not had the 06 yet ( perhaps this weekend ), but everything earlier was fine
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Did Cantemarle go to the dark side? I thought they used to be on this list.
Click to expand...
Not only did Cantemerle not go to the dark side, but recently (new owners I think) they seem to have made a deliberate decision to make the most ethereal, finessed claret they can. I realize this isn't fully old-school because claret was never intended to show finesse at such a young age, but it is certainly the polar opposite of the prevailing fruit-gobbed, "on steroids" aesthetic for Bordeaux.
Click to expand...

The 70 is decent.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Did Cantemarle go to the dark side? I thought they used to be on this list.
Click to expand...
Not only did Cantemerle not go to the dark side, but recently (new owners I think) they seem to have made a deliberate decision to make the most ethereal, finessed claret they can. I realize this isn't fully old-school because claret was never intended to show finesse at such a young age, but it is certainly the polar opposite of the prevailing fruit-gobbed, "on steroids" aesthetic for Bordeaux.
Click to expand...

to my great surprise, I preferred 2004 and 2007(!) to 2006 last night.
 
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