NWR: Jim Joyce

Florida Jim

Florida Jim

Florida Jim
Bad call, no doubt.
But the way that Galaraga responded; the way Joyce owned up, the way the teams and umpires and even, to some degree, the fans, supported Joyce - that's the right stuff.
Sports have so many "me" moments - when folks reach out, it is touching and, for me, reaffirms my love of the game.

I remember reading a story about a softball game where, in the bottom of the final inning, a woman came up and hit a walk-off homer. She rounded first base and her knee collapsed. She could not walk and was in too much pain to crawl.
The other team carried her to each base and allowed her to gently touch it, and, for their trouble, they lost.

In both cases, winning wasn't everything.
Finest kind.

Best, Jim
 
jim, did you see the next night's game? galaraga brought the lineup card out to joyce who was behind the plate for the game. apparantly. it was leyland's idea.
it was a touching moment to say the least.

i remember the softball story. i think it was a game ending homerun.
 
A walk-off homerun is a game ending homerun. I remember that story too. I agree with Jim. This has turned into a great story, probably one better for all concerned than "merely" pitching a perfect game.

By the way, much as I hate to say it, Bud Selig was also right not to arbitrarily rule that this was a perfect game. A perfect game is one in which no runner reaches base for any reason. There have been perfect games ruined by fielding errors. A perfect game ruined by a bad call is no different. It wasn't perfect.

This one turns out to have been better than perfect. As Jim said, it was Best.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
By the way, much as I hate to say it, Bud Selig was also right not to arbitrarily rule that this was a perfect game. A perfect game is one in which no runner reaches base for any reason. There have been perfect games ruined by fielding errors. A perfect game ruined by a bad call is no different. It wasn't perfect.
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I would argue that:
1. there *is* a material difference between a PG ruined by a fielding error and a PG ruined by a bad call; and, further, that
2. there is a material difference between a PG ruined by a bad call and a PG ruined by a bad call on the last out. Had it occurred on the first out, you could not say, "but for the call, the game would have been a PG" - altered chain of causation and all that. But since it occurred on the last out, you actually *can* say "but for the call, the game would have been a PG." That makes a difference to me.

I do believe Selig should have made it go in as a PG in the record books. We are not talking about any outcome-determinative part of the game - it isn't like calling a played game void because the umpire forgot to say "Play Ball" before the game - the only purpose of keeping track of stats like perfect games is to facilitate talk among fans and for posterity about what players accomplished. What was accomplished here was a PG.
 
It's going to go in all the record books, anyway. There'll be a little note at the end of the list of perfect games that he pitched a perfect game but that the ump, by his own admission, blew it on what should have been the last out. As a practical matter, the guy will be more famous in history than most other pitchers that have thrown perfect games.
 
I know not a lot about baseball but the whole thing makes me want to get into it. A big trivia question fifty years from now.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
By the way, much as I hate to say it, Bud Selig was also right not to arbitrarily rule that this was a perfect game. A perfect game is one in which no runner reaches base for any reason. There have been perfect games ruined by fielding errors. A perfect game ruined by a bad call is no different. It wasn't perfect.
Click to expand...
I would argue that:
1. there *is* a material difference between a PG ruined by a fielding error and a PG ruined by a bad call; and, further, that
2. there is a material difference between a PG ruined by a bad call and a PG ruined by a bad call on the last out. Had it occurred on the first out, you could not say, "but for the call, the game would have been a PG" - altered chain of causation and all that. But since it occurred on the last out, you actually *can* say "but for the call, the game would have been a PG." That makes a difference to me.

I do believe Selig should have made it go in as a PG in the record books. We are not talking about any outcome-determinative part of the game - it isn't like calling a played game void because the umpire forgot to say "Play Ball" before the game - the only purpose of keeping track of stats like perfect games is to facilitate talk among fans and for posterity about what players accomplished. What was accomplished here was a PG.
Click to expand...

The term means what it means. Further, as the rules are written, what the umpire says is what happened within the game, regardless of what the replay shows. A perfect game made perfect by Selig overruling an umpire will still not be a perfect game. The umpire would have made his call, the runner would have been on the base. The question isn't about just deserts, alas, but about things being what they are and not what we wish them to be.

Further, if your argument is correct, then the game already is perfect and we don't have to wait for Selig to overrule. You can solve the problem by just referring to it as a perfect game and hoping everybody will agree with you.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Further, as the rules are written, what the umpire says is what happened within the game, regardless of what the replay shows.
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Three umpires share their views of their work:

The first, being old school, says, "I calls 'em as I sees 'em."

The second, a little younger, says, "I calls 'em as they is."

The third, versed in Semantics, says, "Until I calls 'em, they ain't."
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The term means what it means. Further, as the rules are written, what the umpire says is what happened within the game, regardless of what the replay shows. A perfect game made perfect by Selig overruling an umpire will still not be a perfect game. The umpire would have made his call, the runner would have been on the base. The question isn't about just deserts, alas, but about things being what they are and not what we wish them to be.
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This is actually untrue because the rules of baseball *do* provide for umpire decisions to be voided after the fact. See, e.g., the pine-tar incident.
 
In last night's game between the Nationals and the Reds - Nats ss Desmond slides into third base, rolen applies the tag late, desmond comes off the bag for a second, rolen still applying so desmond should be out - but the third base umpire, standing right on top of the play calls him safe, Rolen's protests notwithstanding. Judgment call, right? Not appealable, although Dusty Baker, Reds manager, is out onto the field to protest. Then Joe West, that night's first base umpire and the crew chief, comes across the diamond and overrules the third base umpire! Not done! And then while the Nats' third base coach starts to argue, Desmond drops (not throws) his helmet - and gets thrown out of the game! Having said not one word! Outrageous! West had no business overruling the umpire who was standing two feet from the play. The Nats color guy was livid and kept calling for West's firing and was listing incidents where the guy injected himself inappropriately into the game.

But the Nats won so no protest.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The term means what it means. Further, as the rules are written, what the umpire says is what happened within the game, regardless of what the replay shows. A perfect game made perfect by Selig overruling an umpire will still not be a perfect game. The umpire would have made his call, the runner would have been on the base. The question isn't about just deserts, alas, but about things being what they are and not what we wish them to be.
Click to expand...
This is actually untrue because the rules of baseball *do* provide for umpire decisions to be voided after the fact. See, e.g., the pine-tar incident.
Click to expand...

The rules apply to calls on plays. There is a recent exception for home run calls but otherwise, they are as the punchline to Maureen's joke indicates. The point of the pine tar incident was not that the call was wrong but that the ruled consequence was wrong. Moreover the ruling changed some statistics but nothing meaningful about the game. What you want is for a game in which a runner reached base to be declared a perfect game based on ontology and justice rather than baseball. But if you want ontology and justice to apply, you shouldn't feel the need for Selig to make rulings. As I say, you can just call it as you want to. On that principle, I hereby agree with you that the game was ontologically perfect and declare an end to the argument.
 
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
It's going to go in all the record books, anyway.
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Right next to Harvey Haddix.
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That we remember Haddix and his remarkable game is, I think, a clear indicator of how much individual effort is appreciated, regardless of outcome.
And how that appreciation lasts.
May we remember Galaraga's game in a similar light.

Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
It's going to go in all the record books, anyway.
Click to expand...

Right next to Harvey Haddix.
Click to expand...

That we remember Haddix and his remarkable game is, I think, a clear indicator of how much individual effort is appreciated, regardless of outcome.
And how that appreciation lasts.
May we remember Galaraga's game in a similar light.

Best, Jim
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned Haddix's 12 perfect innings is the best pitching performance in baseball history.

The thing about Galarraga's game is the insane efficiency. Even after the blown call his final pitch count was 88 and the game clocked in at 1:44. Maddux-like, but better because it was perfect (best).
 
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