Steinberger on fraud and the Royals
- Thread starter SFJoe
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Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Well, I wouldn't have anything to do with this shit in the first place, but this is the drift I caught from the two sources mentioned. Also, whatever I think of Parker's personality, I do not disparage his skill and knowledge where B'x wines are concerned, especially right bank.
Florida Jim
Florida Jim
One hears that his "skill" is diminishing over time.
Honestly, I don't know or care but such are the theories being advanced around and about.
Best, Jim
I keep saying it, the real money is in pallets of 2005 2nd growths and the like. I have to believe that there is a factory somewhere in Latvia cranking that stuff out.
Rodenstock is a performer and an artist. This is about the thrill of the con as much as the money, I have to think.
But if I'm an economically motivated guy who can put his ego aside, I move truckloads of fraudulent recent vintages. Why do a beautiful handcrafted job to make a mag of '21 Petrus that raises suspicion in everyone when you could move a case of "2005 Mouton" for the same price? That is a mass market wine, no one thinks it odd that a wholesaler could have 50 cases of it.
It *must* be happening, but it's hard to detect. And, as with all the other frauds, no one anywhere ITB wants it so much as mentioned or considered.
Rodenstock is a performer and an artist. This is about the thrill of the con as much as the money, I have to think.
But if I'm an economically motivated guy who can put his ego aside, I move truckloads of fraudulent recent vintages. Why do a beautiful handcrafted job to make a mag of '21 Petrus that raises suspicion in everyone when you could move a case of "2005 Mouton" for the same price? That is a mass market wine, no one thinks it odd that a wholesaler could have 50 cases of it.
It *must* be happening, but it's hard to detect. And, as with all the other frauds, no one anywhere ITB wants it so much as mentioned or considered.
I don't have any plans in this line of work, either. And I don't disagree with your other comments. But people drinking a '21 Petrus out of magnum might be amazed and impressed that it tasted like a "hypothetical blend of '47 and '53" and better than every other bottle of 1920s vintage Petrus they had tasted.
And if someone was running a big con game like this, the story behind it would make a great movie.
Morgan Harris
Morgan Harris
It seems to me that if you're faking mags of '21 Petrus, and pouring, I don't know, '55 petrus into it, you're seriously cutting into your profit margin.
I think whatever they're filling it with has to be pretty cheap.
I think whatever they're filling it with has to be pretty cheap.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Another reason to steer clear of B'x. Is B'y harder to do because of the smaller quantities produced?
John Ritchie
John Ritchie
Laurent Ponsot might have some opinions on that.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
I thought of Ponsot, but that case is small potatoes compared to the scope of fraud Joe conjectures for B'x, wouldn't you say?
Eden Mylunsch
Eden Mylunsch
I've gotta believe that Rodenstock came up with real bottles of the wines Parker tasted and scored and then created good looking fake bottles to sell to the punters with money enough to fill gaps in the cellars. Parker was simply the route to the McGuffin used by Rodenstock, Oliveros and Sokolin to attract their buyers. Reprehensible was the fact that Eric Greenberg put his wines up at auction after his claim was rejected by his insurer. That may be where Koch may wind up winning a judgment in this case.
I attended a dinner around this time where a bunch of Greenberg's wines were tasted along with dinner in an effort to prove that they were legit. It was an embarrassment of riches as far as the lineup was concerned, but the consensus at the table was that these wines might have been okay, but that this was no guaranty of the rest of the collection. Lots of discussion about the mag of 1947 Cheval Blanc that was opened. Several of the people I was seated with had tasted the wine within the past few weeks and they believed that this bottle was wonderful and amazingly fine old St Emilion but that it was not 1947 Cheval Blanc. Oh well.
-Eden (this is a great piece of investigative journalism by Mike S!)
You missed some stuff in the article, then. The newer assertion is that Parker maintained regular association with the Royal folks for both casual and less casual imbibing, association which (via scores and just the public nature of the relationship) was then used by the Royal gang to sell wine which may have been fraudulent.
At best, Parker was duped by people who were using him. As usual, he could defend himself better by preemptively admitting bad judgment, but of course that's not really in his nature anymore. And he seems, rather typically in these times, to have a difficult time remembering inconvenient things (while still claiming to remember every wine he's ever tasted, mind). At worst, he allowed his critical faculties and what is a constantly-professed suspicion of an untrustworthy wine to completely fall by the wayside. By the end of Steinberger's piece, it's clear he's back on the "is he a consumer advocate or isn't he?" question.
That's what's new in Steinberger's article. Not anything many in the trade haven't heard muttered for a while now, but this is the first time someone's put it out there with more than hearsay behind it.
U
Unknown
Guest
Eden,
pre-WWII pomerols are not that good; VCC has just about the best track record, but those bottles are still atypical in terms of what we know the best pomerols from the 40s and 50s to be, more medoc-like if anything.
most of the stuff was sold off, chateau bottlings have always been nearly impossibly to come by
st emilion is a completely different story
.sasha
pre-WWII pomerols are not that good; VCC has just about the best track record, but those bottles are still atypical in terms of what we know the best pomerols from the 40s and 50s to be, more medoc-like if anything.
most of the stuff was sold off, chateau bottlings have always been nearly impossibly to come by
st emilion is a completely different story
.sasha
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Pavie?