Does Biodynamic Work in the Vineyards Hurt Wine Quality?

J

Joe Dressner

Joe Dressner
I've been travelling for about 2 1/2 weeks all over France. I have tasted many stunning wines made with biodynamic vineyard practices and talked with numerous vignerons who are convinced biodynamie has benefited their wine. None of the people I met with are gurus or leading members of the Biodynamic movement. They are farmers trying to produce good wine.

I just took a quick look at the 250+ entries in the Biodynamic thread on this board. Wow! Not a lot of Steiner love.

So, does anyone have an example of how a vineyard's turn to biodynamic practices has hurt the quality of that vineyard's wine?
 
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes, so I don't think that's the question being begged by the Biodynamic thread.

What was under debate is whether going biodynamic adds conclusively to going organic, which nearly everyone agress is beneficial, even though neither regime is prescriptive about cellar practices, or guarantees better wine.
 
I do know of one or two producers in Burgundy who have abandoned biodynamie, although I'm not certain whether it is because they thought it hurt the quality of the wines or whether it did not add anything extra (to organic or lutte raisonne practices) and so was not worth the extra cost.

I know of several others (in Burgundy and elsewhere) who were organic and say that they see little added gain since they switched to biodynamie from organic culture, but they continue (at least for the moment) in biodynamie.

But for the most part, these are the exceptions that prove the rule.
 
I think Oswaldo is spot on. I know some people who feel biodynamic vineyard practices have made better wines and/or made healthier grapes for them over just organic. There is an argument that it gets you out in the vineyard more and thus you're more in tune with and on top of your vine and grape health. I tend to agree with these sentiments.

You can absolutely take biodynamics too far and only pick according to the calendar which could readily negatively impact your wine.

As with all things, common sense must prevail.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:

So, does anyone have an example of how a vineyard's turn to biodynamic practices has hurt the quality of that vineyard's wine?
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I sure liked the Zind-Humbrecht wines under non-biodynamic Lonard a lot more than I like them under biodynamic Olivier.
 
I sure liked the Zind-Humbrecht wines under non-biodynamic Lonard a lot more than I like them under biodynamic Olivier.
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This brings up a great point. It might be better said that many producers have improved their wines by conversion to biodynamics but biodynamics are in no way an implication of quality.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Joe Dressner:

So, does anyone have an example of how a vineyard's turn to biodynamic practices has hurt the quality of that vineyard's wine?
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I sure liked the Zind-Humbrecht wines under non-biodynamic Lonard a lot more than I like them under biodynamic Olivier.
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+1
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes, so I don't think that's the question being begged by the Biodynamic thread.

What was under debate is whether going biodynamic adds conclusively to going organic, which nearly everyone agress is beneficial, even though neither regime is prescriptive about cellar practices, or guarantees better wine.
Click to expand...
Wow, what a troll buzzkill you are, Oswaldo, with all this reason.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Does Biodynamic Work in the Vineyards Hurt Wine Quality?
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I'm wondering just how harm or benefit can be reliably determined. I'm a little skeptical of anecdotal
assessments.

Speaking of anecdotal, there was a comment IIRC at "BD is a hoax" by a guy who said his experience as a grower in New Zealand was that Bd practices failed to maintain vineyard fertility over time. Vines were showing decline after 7 years or so.

edit; He may have only seen yields go too low not quality, now that I think about it.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes, so I don't think that's the question being begged by the Biodynamic thread.

What was under debate is whether going biodynamic adds conclusively to going organic, which nearly everyone agress is beneficial, even though neither regime is prescriptive about cellar practices, or guarantees better wine.
Click to expand...
Wow, what a troll buzzkill you are, Oswaldo, with all this reason.
Click to expand...

+1
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes, so I don't think that's the question being begged by the Biodynamic thread.

What was under debate is whether going biodynamic adds conclusively to going organic, which nearly everyone agress is beneficial, even though neither regime is prescriptive about cellar practices, or guarantees better wine.
Click to expand...
Wow, what a troll buzzkill you are, Oswaldo, with all this reason.
Click to expand...

+1
Click to expand...
Jesus, Oswaldo. First you're all living in the '90s with your Loire choices and now you're getting rational and stuff. Next thing you know you'll be writing paragraphs explaining in-jokes.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes
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There have been allegations that in certain difficult years in Burgundy with a lot of odium and/or other disease, e.g., 2004, biodynamic producers were at a serious disadvantage in protecting their vines. and therefore their resulting wines. However, others claim that there were effective ways to protect the vines that were consistent with biodynamie, it's just that some didn't follow them.

I don't know that one can find more controversial wines than Leroy 2004s (some say they are excellent, others say they are ruined, all wines were declassified to village or Bourgogne), but I don't think anyone outside of the immediate circle of Domaine Leroy knows what the real story was.
 
I think the point about Olivier Humbrecht is more about style than quality.
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Claude didn't say they were "better," he said that he liked them more*. As do -- or more accurately, at this late date, did -- I.

*Cue the professor in 3...2...1...
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes, so I don't think that's the question being begged by the Biodynamic thread.

What was under debate is whether going biodynamic adds conclusively to going organic, which nearly everyone agress is beneficial, even though neither regime is prescriptive about cellar practices, or guarantees better wine.
Click to expand...

There were a few themes in the earlier thread: one was that of asking for proof that BD had any concrete affect on grape/wine quality. It's reasonable for Joe to reverse the question.
 
originally posted by Thor:
I think the point about Olivier Humbrecht is more about style than quality.
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Claude didn't say they were "better," he said that he liked them more*. As do -- or more accurately, at this late date, did -- I.

*Cue the professor in 3...2...1...
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That was exactly my point.

But see Josh's post above my earlier one for the other intepretation.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes, so I don't think that's the question being begged by the Biodynamic thread.

What was under debate is whether going biodynamic adds conclusively to going organic, which nearly everyone agress is beneficial, even though neither regime is prescriptive about cellar practices, or guarantees better wine.
Click to expand...

There were a few themes in the earlier thread: one was that of asking for proof that BD had any concrete affect on grape/wine quality. It's reasonable for Joe to reverse the question.
Click to expand...

Not so much "proof that BD had any concrete (e)ffect on grape/wine quality" but "proof that BD had any concrete (e)ffect on grape/wine quality" over & above what organic, by itself, already achieves.
 
originally posted by lars makie:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Nobody has suggested that becoming biodynamic has hurt the quality of a vineyard's grapes, so I don't think that's the question being begged by the Biodynamic thread.

What was under debate is whether going biodynamic adds conclusively to going organic, which nearly everyone agress is beneficial, even though neither regime is prescriptive about cellar practices, or guarantees better wine.
Click to expand...
Wow, what a troll buzzkill you are, Oswaldo, with all this reason.
Click to expand...

+1
Click to expand...
Jesus, Oswaldo. First you're all living in the '90s with your Loire choices and now you're getting rational and stuff. Next thing you know you'll be writing paragraphs explaining in-jokes.
Click to expand...

The company I keep here is what requires paragraphs of explanation.
 
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