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Are there any compelling Bordeaux?
- Thread starter Alice F.
- Start date
Tristan Welles
Tristan Welles
Conseillante, Haut-Bailly, Domaine de Chevalier, rouge et blanc, Vieux Chateau Certan, Haut Brion, Latour Haut Brion (RIP), Laville Haut Brion, Cheval Blanc, Figeac, the host of chateaux in the neighborhood of Cheval Blanc and Figeac with the hyphenated names, Yon-Vieux-La Tour-DuPin-Clos du-Fiqeac, etc, Langoa Barton, Leoville Barton, Lafleur, and a few dozen others.
When I see this question return, seemingly with greater frequency, I assume one of three things is at work; an inordinate dislike of the home base of the major wine touts because of the major wine touts, a (somewhat natural) rebellion against the price (though why then do the same questioners usually love Burgundy?) or taste expectations that run counter to what the usual cepage of Bordeaux wine, and its natural secondary and tertiary characteristics, delivers.
When I see this question return, seemingly with greater frequency, I assume one of three things is at work; an inordinate dislike of the home base of the major wine touts because of the major wine touts, a (somewhat natural) rebellion against the price (though why then do the same questioners usually love Burgundy?) or taste expectations that run counter to what the usual cepage of Bordeaux wine, and its natural secondary and tertiary characteristics, delivers.
Howard Cooper
Howard Cooper
I like some Bordeaux. I was at a tasting of 2001 Bordeaux and really enjoyed the Latour, Lafite, Pichon Lalande, Calon Segur and Montrose. On the other hand, I found some modern style forced wines like Pape Clement and le Plus offensive.
Bordeaux can be great, but Bordeaux, to me, is a minefield.
Bordeaux can be great, but Bordeaux, to me, is a minefield.
originally posted by Howard Cooper:
I like some Bordeaux. I was at a tasting of 2001 Bordeaux and really enjoyed the Latour, Lafite, Pichon Lalande, Calon Segur and Montrose. On the other hand, I found some modern style forced wines like Pape Clement and le Plus offensive.
Bordeaux can be great, but Bordeaux, to me, is a minefield.
There is a wine called le plus. Is the natural version le minus?
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
Thanks for the info on Corbin-Michotte, which I've long been a fan of. Fleshy is a very good description for the style, which I'd previously heard attributed to the fact that it's actually more of a Pomerol terroir than a St.-Emilion. Whatever the reason, it's a standout wine and I wish it was easier to come by.originally posted by VS:
I don't know if it's compelling or not, but a wine such as Prof. Jean-Nol Boidron's Chteau Corbin-Michotte (St milion Grand Cru Class) always delights me because it's so natural, fleshy and real. I've seen a French explanation of its terroir that's pretty interesting:
"Ce vignoble na jamais t trait avec des herbicides. La typicit du vin est due son sol. Celui-ci est sablo-limoneux brun gris reposant sur un sous-sol sablo-argileux fortement ferrugineux (crasse de fer), avec quelques graves en surface. Il sagit dune nappe alluviale quartenaire de lIsle. Certains lments proviennent du Massif Central. Ce sol est un des plus riches en certains oligolments, en particulier en baryum."
I guess it's the iron in the subsoil that gives it that eminently likable fleshiness. Good stuff. Modest prices.
although it is apparently getting a bit oaky the last couple of years, Leoville-Barton is a much honored wine for its traditional and honest preparation and (relatively) reasonable price. It's a wine that other producers collect. Of course, it's a 20 year wait until it comes around, and the 09s are said to need even longer.
I bought a ton of 05 Bordeaux before I figured out my taste, and now am looking at nearly 4 cases which I'd happily trade for a bunch of Chinon or Cru Beaujolais. But once in a while, especially in the dead of winter when tearing into red meat, nothing beats one. (But it's hard to imagine that a vegetarian would find them as satisfying.)
I bought a ton of 05 Bordeaux before I figured out my taste, and now am looking at nearly 4 cases which I'd happily trade for a bunch of Chinon or Cru Beaujolais. But once in a while, especially in the dead of winter when tearing into red meat, nothing beats one. (But it's hard to imagine that a vegetarian would find them as satisfying.)
Howard Cooper
Howard Cooper
originally posted by Lyle Fass:
originally posted by Howard Cooper:
I like some Bordeaux. I was at a tasting of 2001 Bordeaux and really enjoyed the Latour, Lafite, Pichon Lalande, Calon Segur and Montrose. On the other hand, I found some modern style forced wines like Pape Clement and le Plus offensive.
Bordeaux can be great, but Bordeaux, to me, is a minefield.
There is a wine called le plus. Is the natural version le minus?
The full name of the wine is Chteau La Fleur de Board Le Plus. If there were a le minus, I assume it would be le minus the big score from Parker.
Howard Cooper
Howard Cooper
originally posted by maureen:
climens
Why is it that I could have anticipated this response. Obviously, Climens contains no Chardonnay or Riesling so it is fair game for our tasting.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Ken Sacks:
I bought a ton of 05 Bordeaux before I figured out my taste, and now am looking at nearly 4 cases which I'd happily trade for a bunch of Chinon or Cru Beaujolais. But once in a while, especially in the dead of winter when tearing into red meat, nothing beats one. (But it's hard to imagine that a vegetarian would find them as satisfying.)
A journey to Chinon is highly recommended. But the likes of 1993 Certan de May, which I drank last night, can delay you for a while.
The 2000 Ch. Gombaude-Guillot, still available in the market seems delicious. Really restrained. lively. Fresh. Violet.
This wine never gets any attention and I can't understand why. $60 for what it is, aint so bad. Not that I crave it or will buy it, but if I needed a Bordeaux, that would be my pick. This was the only wine that got sucked up to the bitter end.
At first glance the 04 Jaugaret seemed winning, but then over the next two days it became huge, dense, one note. I suspect it will age up but is so fruit forward, I tired of it easilly.
The only other wine worth considering in the lineup was the 05 Le Puy, which, at $40 was a bargain, salty and savory.
Oh! The 2005 Peybonhomme Quintessence @ under $20, was the wine of the evening for price/quality/enjoyment.
In the end, though, bring on the Loire cab franc.
This wine never gets any attention and I can't understand why. $60 for what it is, aint so bad. Not that I crave it or will buy it, but if I needed a Bordeaux, that would be my pick. This was the only wine that got sucked up to the bitter end.
At first glance the 04 Jaugaret seemed winning, but then over the next two days it became huge, dense, one note. I suspect it will age up but is so fruit forward, I tired of it easilly.
The only other wine worth considering in the lineup was the 05 Le Puy, which, at $40 was a bargain, salty and savory.
Oh! The 2005 Peybonhomme Quintessence @ under $20, was the wine of the evening for price/quality/enjoyment.
In the end, though, bring on the Loire cab franc.
U
Unknown
Guest
interesting about G-G, the last vintage I followed with sufficient degree of attention was the 1989, which was lovely but kinda got lost in the sea of a fantastic range of pre-spoof right banks in that year.
does anyone know if the current vineyards overlap with the old Ch Guillot ?
does anyone know if the current vineyards overlap with the old Ch Guillot ?
originally posted by .sasha:
does anyone know if the current vineyards overlap with the old Ch Guillot ?
As I remember the old Ch. Guillot is quite a distance from the G-G vineyards, which are cross the tiny road from Clinet.
Steve Edmunds
Steve Edmunds
I tend toward "bring on the Loire Cab Franc" myself, these days, but I'm drinking '66 and '70 Montrose Friday night (with the original price stickers on, from mid-'70's), and the reason I have hung onto them for Lo, these many years, is the terroir. Hugh Johnson's little story from so many years back about opening bottles from the trunk of his car at a roadside café to pour for the truckers dining there still warms the cockles of this old heart.
robert ames
robert ames
kermit lynch currently has ex-domaine 1989 chanteleuserie beauvais bourgueil for what should retail @ a bit under $40/btl. also same bottling 1996 same price.
bordeaux? did someone say bordeaux? i can't hear you. bordeaux for the bordeaulaise (sp?).
the 1989 rocks. pure and complex. steady and strong. unflappable. haven't had the 1996.
bordeaux? did someone say bordeaux? i can't hear you. bordeaux for the bordeaulaise (sp?).
the 1989 rocks. pure and complex. steady and strong. unflappable. haven't had the 1996.
Chris Coad
Chris Coad
Bordeaux is an obscure, but up-and-coming wine region. One day I fully expect it to come into its own and be France's version of the North Fork of Long Island.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
I tend toward "bring on the Loire Cab Franc" myself [...]
This is where I've ended up. Stopped buying b'x in any meaningful way in 2002. The Chateaux owners I've met/observed since haven't rekindled my interest, it's a funny culture there.
OTOH, great, reasonably-priced cab from the Loire made by people with personalities.
Salil Benegal
Salil Benegal
I love Loire Cab Franc, but I don't always find it substitutes for old Bordeaux which can be a singular and incredibly wonderful experience. I've been opening a few older acquisitions recently and '66 Beychevelle, '79 DDC and '86 Meyney have been glorious recently (and not too pricey - certainly no more expensive than a bottle of Rougeard's Poyeux).
Though I'm pretty much done buying the young stuff, given the price disparities with the older bottles available out there and the styles. A few recent sips (I couldn't even manage to choke down a glass) of '01 Pape Clement was hideous and undrinkable, and completely unrecognizable from any of the old classic bottles I've had from that estate.
Though I'm pretty much done buying the young stuff, given the price disparities with the older bottles available out there and the styles. A few recent sips (I couldn't even manage to choke down a glass) of '01 Pape Clement was hideous and undrinkable, and completely unrecognizable from any of the old classic bottles I've had from that estate.