2006 Arnoux Bourgogne

O

Oswaldo Costa

Oswaldo Costa
2006 Arnoux Pre et Fils Bourgogne 12.5%
Made from pinot fin clone. Bright sour cherry with forest floor and a touch of funk. Satisfying mouthfeel, correct acid/sweet balance, straightforward fruit, slightly candied finish. Probably plateauing. My last of six, good enough that I'm happy I bought them, but not so good I wish I had bought double.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
pinot fin clone.
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I thought that would be oxymoronic?
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Hmm, good point (I hate redundancies, like "thought to myself," "ask questions," etc.), perhaps a test would be to invert the order: if I had written "Made from a clone known as pinot fin," would that have been oxymoronic?
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I thought the point of pinot fin was that it was massale? Or am I addled?
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Oh, I see what you're getting at, but I think there's another meaning of the word clone to just mean variant, no? Not necessarily from clonale, as such.
 
Hmmmm. To me, the thing about clones is their identity, but others may have a different usage.
 
It would certainly make sense to restrict the use of the word "clone" to variants created by the set of all men who are not monks, and women.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Hmmmm. To me, the thing about clones is their identity, but others may have a different usage.
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No, it doesn't. Pinot fin simply means massale.
 
Pinot noir appears to be particularly prone to mutation (suggesting it has active transposable elements?), and has a long history in cultivation, so there are hundreds of different clones such as Pinot Fin and Pinot Tordu. More than 50 are officially recognized in France, compared to only 25 of the much more widely planted cabernet sauvignon.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
From the wiki entry for Pinot NoirPinot noir appears to be particularly prone to mutation (suggesting it has active transposable elements?), and has a long history in cultivation, so there are hundreds of different clones such as Pinot Fin and Pinot Tordu. More than 50 are officially recognized in France, compared to only 25 of the much more widely planted cabernet sauvignon.
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Dunno about the wiki, but the way pinot fin has been used in my presence is in reference to massale selection which can be of various clonal material.

Dunno. ???
 
This seems like a topic where broad use of terminology creates confusion.

Massale propagation could made from vines of known specific genetics, developed and bred by geneticists
for distribution from nurseries over the past 40-50 years OR it could be from older vines that were not
bred or isolated in modern times by geneticists. Those are what are generally referred to as "fin".

A grower could pursue whatever he wishes to propagate. If he has a vineyard of known clones that are doing well and it saves money, he could take cuttings from the best looking vines of those known clones. If he seeks to keep an old vineyard of mixed noncommercially bred vines going, he selects from them. Either way it is massale propagation. Or massale selected fin cuttings could be used to replant a vineyard

The Arnoux is either an old vineyard of noncommercial vines or was more recently planted from massale
selected cuttings sourced from an old vineyard that qualifies as fin because the vines there were not
commercially bred and are old pre modern nonclones.

Commercially bred strains are cloned and distributed. Massale selected "fin" cuttings aren't clones because they come from nonclone vineyards.

Does that do anything to sort it out?
 
Thanks, Ned, seems clear from what you wrote that it is improper to refer to them as clones, even though it is widespread usage. Just as we guard here against the use of varietal to mean variety, perhaps we should do the same with the word clone.
 
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