2000 Texier Brzme VV

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
How come you guys discard the very flavorful bone part of the leg of lamb? I find that part needs it more than the shoulder, say. You could always debone, pound, retie, roast/grill.

Or maybe you can't grill string.
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I'm preaching to choir, I'm sure, but with bone-in leg, I'm roasting it, usually with copious slivers of garlic inserted into incisions. That's a much longer process, though, so when we need a quick lamb dinner, it's either the above prep or rack of lamb cut into cutlets and broiled. Life's tough when you've got to serve dinner early enough to conform to a 1st grader's schedule.

Mark Lipton
 
Pergault VV has been a key ingredient at this summer's outdoor grilling sessions. The right flavours, great match with steaks and lamb, and without the unnecessary side effects in this 90F heat. Eric rules.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Bone-in leg is for roasting in an oven for a longer period of time. I also use a marinade for grilling lamb that I don't prefer for a roast.
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Care to share, Provencal professor.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
Pergault VV has been a key ingredient at this summer's outdoor grilling sessions. The right flavours, great match with steaks and lamb, and without the unnecessary side effects in this 90F heat. Eric rules.
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Which vintage?
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Bone-in leg is for roasting in an oven for a longer period of time. I also use a marinade for grilling lamb that I don't prefer for a roast.
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Care to share, Provencal professor.
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Basically, 1/2 cup red wine, 1/4 cup olive oil, 1/4 cup vinegar, cayenne pepper (a couple of shakes), some powdered coriander (fresh also when available) and a lot of crushed garlic, 5-8 or more cloves depending on size. Marinate for 24 hours. More if you are using Aussie lamb (this marinade will tame and tenderize Aussie lamb, but never completely).

I also like to spread the butterfly with tapenade or a thing made of anchovies, olives and rosemary. One can broil this, instead of grilling it, if one wants.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by .sasha:
Pergault VV has been a key ingredient at this summer's outdoor grilling sessions. The right flavours, great match with steaks and lamb, and without the unnecessary side effects in this 90F heat. Eric rules.
Click to expand...

Which vintage?
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Yes.
 
I would argue against acidic marinades on meat for long soaking. I don't think they really tenderize the interior, they just turn the surface to unattractive mush.
 
I agree. Unless you're making lamb ceviche. Which probably isn't as interesting as it sounds.

I might make an exception for chicken (especially lousy chicken one is trying to rescue, which can happen when one is drafted to cook from someone else's pantry), which can take a certain duration of acidification, especially if it's going on the grill. But still, not 24 hours. The only 24-hour marinades I use are salty ones, as in Bangkok street chicken and so forth.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I would argue against acidic marinades on meat for long soaking. I don't think they really tenderize the interior, they just turn the surface to unattractive mush.
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As Groucho Marx said to Margaret Dumont: "I haven't had any complaint yet."

Seriously, I object to pounding meat because of what it does to the surface, but a good charring covers that in both cases.

I mostly use the marinade as a flavoring agent, but I do find it tenderizes the interior. My book that explains cooking to boobs says that olive oil--and other oils--act as an emulsifier. I can't say if it is right, but I can say that the marinade seems to work for Aussie lamb.

It takes a lot more than 24 hours in wine and vinegar to make a ceviche out of a boned leg of lamb, assuming that it could happen before various other forms of rot set in.
 
The few bottles I've had of the 2000 Brzme VV were so acidic as to be almost painful. The wine was extremely tart, with almost a burning sensation as it went down. (I last tried a bottle just over a year ago.) I like acidic wines, but this was just too much, so tart and so fiercely acidic. Otherwise the wine was much as Mark described.
 
It takes a lot more than 24 hours in wine and vinegar to make a ceviche out of a boned leg of lamb
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Sure, but I was responding to SFJoe's "meat" and not your "leg"...if there's any way at all of getting away with that sentence as written, which there probably isn't.

I don't see how the marinade could possibly penetrate any significant distance inward. Anyone have any science to suggest otherwise?
 
originally posted by Thor:
It takes a lot more than 24 hours in wine and vinegar to make a ceviche out of a boned leg of lamb
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Sure, but I was responding to SFJoe's "meat" and not your "leg"...if there's any way at all of getting away with that sentence as written, which there probably isn't.

I don't see how the marinade could possibly penetrate any significant distance inward. Anyone have any science to suggest otherwise?
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You mean real scientific knowledge? Or the type of knowledge you look up in a book?
McGee and This both indicate marinades don't penetrate very deeply.

Don't really get your analogy to ceviche. Ceviche was originally a quick few hour (2-3) marinade and apparently now has become typically little more than a citrus vinagrette applied at the last minute.
 
McGee would do, and that's what I was thinking of; my book's in a different city at the moment, but what I remembered was that the marinade had a very limited penetration.

The ceviche comment was a joke, but based on the idea that the only purpose I can see in long-marinated meat (presumably hacked into ceviche-sized pieces for this still-theoretical purpose) is making some sort of ceviche analogue.
 
I've also heard marinades don't soak in more than a small fraction of an inch. But a lot of most meat's flavor is concentrated in its outer layer, by virtue of the cooking processes.

Wonder if marinades function differently in sous vide. Jay?
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've also heard marinades don't soak in more than a small fraction of an inch. But a lot of most meat's flavor is concentrated in its outer layer, by virtue of the cooking and processes.

Wonder if marinades function differently in sous vide. Jay?
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Good question. With the lower cost setup I have you have to freeze the liquids beforehand for them to stay in the bag so I've mostly been experimenting with dry ingredients.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've also heard marinades don't soak in more than a small fraction of an inch. But a lot of most meat's flavor is concentrated in its outer layer, by virtue of the cooking and processes.

Wonder if marinades function differently in sous vide. Jay?
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I'm not Jay but I think the vacuum intensifies the effect and not in a good way if left to marinate too long.
 
As I said, my book, not in my office so I can't cite, on cooking chemistry for bozos, maintains that the emulsifiers in oil do allow marinades to penetrate meat. Even if that were a fraction of an inch, in a boned and butterflied leg, that would be more than sufficient to affect flavor. It wouldn't do much to tenderize, though. With regard to that, I can only testify that it does seem to help with Aussie and NZ lamb, which I find gamier (good) and tougher (bad) than US lamb.
 
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've also heard marinades don't soak in more than a small fraction of an inch. But a lot of most meat's flavor is concentrated in its outer layer, by virtue of the cooking and processes.

Wonder if marinades function differently in sous vide. Jay?
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I'm not Jay but I think the vacuum intensifies the effect and not in a good way if left to marinate too long.
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Bad information on my part according to Keller's "Under Pressure". quote: "We marinate sous vide because it is neat, convenient and efficient. Vacuum-sealing itself doesn't speed up marinating, but when the bag is opened, releasing the vacuum, some marinade can penetrate the food, enhancing its effects."
 
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