TN: 2005 Baudry Chinon

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Ian Fitzsimmons

Ian Fitzsimmons
2005 Baudry Chinon Grezeaux

Day 1, deep red, pretty cherries on the nose, a whack of stem wood backed up by lots of substance, so substantial its difficult to extract much flavor out of.

Day 2, nose now woody rather than cherryey. Wood on the palate less prominent, still lots of substance, something fruity lurking in the background, hints of blackcurrent. A pleasing chalky tactile quality. Terrific refreshing acids.

Im still sorting myself out with Loire CF; Im both attracted to it and repelled by it, as Diane Keaton says of the male sexual organ in Manhattan. I do not glom to the ubiquitous stem wood, but I like about everything else. Its interesting, in any event, which is more than you can say about a lot of Bx.

One glass left, well see what tomorrow brings.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

One glass left, well see what tomorrow brings.
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Further enlightenment, no doubt. Welcome to the curiosity club!

-Eden (with more Chinon in the cellar than anything else except maybe Bandol or Cornas)
 
I too often get weird green flavors with Chinon and Bourgueil, even in ripe years like 2005. I was at the one local wine store that even bothers to carry any variety of Loire red and the owner was cooing about a Loire cabernet sauvignon (not franc) and I swear to God it tasted like pickle juice. I love Loire whites and reds like Sancerre, gamay and pineau d'aunis and many of Clos Roche Blanche bottlings but I just don't get the cabernets and take some comfort when others have some issues.
 
Amazing. I just had this wine, too. A bottle I carried back from France.

I agree that it became more tactile on Day 2 but I did not notice anything woody or stemmy. Just beautiful fruit, acids, and tannins. It was more wound-up on Day 1 so not as enjoyable.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Amazing. I just had this wine, too. A bottle I carried back from France.

I agree that it became more tactile on Day 2 but I did not notice anything woody or stemmy. Just beautiful fruit, acids, and tannins. It was more wound-up on Day 1 so not as enjoyable.
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Maybe a physiological thing - perhaps I have a sensitivity. I have tasted stem wood in every Loire Cab Franc I've ever imbibed, with the sole exception of Breton's 2005 Senechal. As an undernote, it can be an appealing facet; as a dominant flavor element, I have trouble loving it.
 
...I swear to God it tasted like pickle juice.
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I've had pickle juice before and disliked it as much. (C'mon, if I want pickle juice I can open a jar of half-sours for a cheap thrill) Some Loire reds do
show the stemmy side of the vine, which I appreciate in just the right dose, but I tend to like riper years there for the overlay of succulent hanging fruit that frames these so well. Perhaps the ones you tasted just need time to round these out a bit more? Have you tried aged examples (6-10 years)?
 
originally posted by MarkS:
Perhaps the ones you tasted just need time to round these out a bit more? Have you tried aged examples (6-10 years)?
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One, a 1998 Chinon, which I later found out was a bad year for Loire reds.
If that's stemminess that causes that, can that change with age? Is there hope for the 2004 Domaine de Bellivire Rouge-Gorge that Sharon said was one of the worst wines she's tasted? I've actually got a bottle of that in my cellar that I bought before I knew what it tasted like.
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originally posted by SteveTimko:
Is there hope for the 2004 Domaine de Bellivire Rouge-Gorge that Sharon said was one of the worst wines she's tasted? I've actually got a bottle of that in my cellar that I bought before I knew what it tasted like.
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Pineau d'aunis is an entirely different animal from cabernet franc. Why not open to see whether you like it?
 
originally posted by SteveTimko:
originally posted by MarkS:
Perhaps the ones you tasted just need time to round these out a bit more? Have you tried aged examples (6-10 years)?
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One, a 1998 Chinon, which I later found out was a bad year for Loire reds.
If that's stemminess that causes that, can that change with age?
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While your bottle of 1998 Chinon may have been bad, beware of vintage generalizations. We drank a 1998 Olga Raffault Chinon "Les Picasses" within the last year. I didn't have high expectations for the bottle because of my own vintage prejudices, but it turned out to be very good.

(I've tried to clean up the quoting, so I've got my fingers crossed that the formatting will be OK. The preview function doesn't seem to work for me...)
 
I was at a tasting w/ hundreds of wines a couple of months ago and the 05 Grezeaux was probably in my top three...superb stuff.
 
I opened an '02 Grezeaux this past weekend. There was one initial blast of green bell pepperness that slipped away after about 20 minutes or so and what was left was nothing less than a beautiful balance of tannins, acid, minerals and fruit. This wine is far outstripping its P/E Ratio and is masquerading as a high priced (old school) Bordeaux. I sincerely believe that the '02 needs a few more years, and likewise the '05, and will probably last decades - truly amazing stuff
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Maybe a physiological thing - perhaps I have a sensitivity. I have tasted stem wood in every Loire Cab Franc I've ever imbibed, with the sole exception of Breton's 2005 Senechal. As an undernote, it can be an appealing facet; as a dominant flavor element, I have trouble loving it.
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I'm a little bit lost with your reference to stem wood. Obviously it's a metaphor, and I might readily imagine the flavour of stem wood. (Do you mean the rachis?) But I don't easily place it in Chinon, nor Bourgeuil, nor Saumur-Champigny, etc. In all the Vitis Biturica, pyrazines provide flavour components, and may be unpleasantly prominent when the wine is unripe. (This is usually referred to as green pepper.) Or maybe you are referring to the characteristic tannins of Cabernet, which can also be unpleasant when unripe. Clearly you are not complaining about ripeness, though, since Grezeaux 2005 is a fully ripened wine. Some tasters I know are particularly sensitive to the pyrazines and seek to avoid contact with all Biturican wines.
 
originally posted by JasonA:
Give it some time...I opened an '02 Grezeaux this past weekend. There was one initial blast of green bell pepperness that slipped away after about 20 minutes or so and what was left was nothing less than a beautiful balance of tannins, acid, minerals and fruit...I sincerely believe that the '02 needs a few more years.
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I agree and had the same experience, although storage is obviously an issue as a bottle stored imperfectly in CA showed much like what you describe but a bottle with better storage in Paris was much more backwards.

Either way, nothing wrong with owning this wine.
 
originally posted by Jeff Connell:
In all the Vitis Biturica, pyrazines provide flavour components, and may be unpleasantly prominent when the wine is unripe. (This is usually referred to as green pepper.) Or maybe you are referring to the characteristic tannins of Cabernet, which can also be unpleasant when unripe. Clearly you are not complaining about ripeness, though, since Grezeaux 2005 is a fully ripened wine. Some tasters I know are particularly sensitive to the pyrazines and seek to avoid contact with all Biturican wines.
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Some of my favorite drinking companions are in this group.

Jeff, is Biturica a subclassification of vinifera? I assume it would include Franc, Sauvignon, and Sauvignons gris and blanc, but are there other members? How are they grouped?
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
The therapy preview never worked for me, so I'm in the habit of posting then editing.
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Really? I thought the therapy preview function was the best on the 'net, apart from the fact that it had a too-short character limit.

I miss it so much.
 
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