I've gone deep on vinyl - the German ECM pressings are the bees knees!

  • Thread starter Thread starter BJ
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Never able to sink my teeth too deeply into the ECM catalogue. Few chestnuts here and there. Perhaps I'll take a second look at some the sides recommended above. I've always associated them with the MPS label for obvious reasons. For anyone wanting to explore the more soulful side of their releases this is a great mix of Rhodes tracks:

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neverenoughrhodes.blogspot.com
 
And I don't think the Jarrett backlash has reached a fever pitch so much as it's always been on simmer. Never got his vibe.
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
I saw the Art Ensemble quite a few times at Yoshi's in the mid to late 90s, but Joseph Jarman wasn't in the group at that time. The only time I saw the full quintet was in the mid-70s at this tiny club in south Berkeley called Mapenzi. That club couldn't have held more than 50 patrons. I was in the front row getting my college-age mind blown.
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Larry, was there another sax-ist in place of Jarman? AAOC without Jarman is sort of like a bicycle without a wheel...or a seat, or handlebars, or something like that...

I love knowing that you know what I knew, from the front row point of view. I was there as often as possible.
 
As for Jarrett, well, if one is a true jazz fan, I think the trio stuff is very difficult to criticize. The solo stuff is a different matter, but really, a different creature as well.
 
Scott, Keith still never ceases to amaze me in all of his musical situations, although there are some I do prefer to others (the Impulse American Quartet albums and ECM's Survivor's Suite are my favorites right now). His stage presence is a big problem for me, and I still haven't gotten over watching the video of him cursing out the city of Perguia. I'm conflicted because I love his music so much, but find him so difficult to stand personally. My solution for now is to continue to enjoy the records I already own, but I don't see any reason to continue to pay high prices for the chance to be chided from the stage.

Otto, I take it you're familiar with Garbarek's work with Hilliard as well?
 
I never held it against Miles for not friending me up. It's the music after all. If I needed to like these guys personally, there wouldn't be much to listen to.
 
I think Jarrett is amazing - best thought of as an idiot savant in the vein of some of the uber techie guys like Bill Gates et al. His music pushes the boundaries of jazz, not unlike Miles, Bill Frisell, Ralph Towner, and if he is to be burdened with categorization, then I'd free him up and say he is a great American musician and leave it at that.

The trio played here in Seattle about eight years ago - I find myself still thinking about the show. They came back for three or four encores - one of the best shows I've seen, ever. If he bawls out folks on occasion for being disrespectful, more power to him. Rickie Lee does the same thing and I don't blame her a whit.
 
BJ, Joel, I definitely see where you're coming from and agreed for years, but I think it's just gotten way over the top. When someone coughs in San Francisco and he throws a gigantic fit, that's not an audience being disrespectful, and yelling at everyone in Peugia because some idiots were taking cellphone pics is a little ridiculous.

When I saw him at Carnegie Hall with the trio we were all chided like little children because Jarrett could see a red recording light somewhere in the audience, and the show wasn't nearly as good as others I've seen from them, especially back from around 1999-2003.

That said, the new duo album with Charlie Haden is simply stunning, and if the two of them were to tour it would be hard for me to keep holding this silly grudge and not buy tickets.
 
Well, I just chalk it up to who and what he is. Beauty is a many splendored thing.

I will say that audiences nowadays are really bad, and the performer often has a perspective on the audience that people in the audience don't. Some performers at different times just can't take noise and that just goes with the territory. Live performance is to an extent co-created.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
Is Dis one of the good Garbarek albums?

The best stuff on ECM is the renaissance stuff from The Hilliard Ensemble.
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It is such a shame all the Hilliard stuff came post digital.
 
John, yes I'm familiar with one of the CD's Garbarek garbled up with Hilliard. I'm not convinced by the concept. I find the Renaissance music on the disk to be complete in itself so my reaction was similar to the Massenet piece where he wrote a melody over Bach's WTC #1's Prelude: it may sound nice, but it's ultimately pointless to improve on what works as a whole.

BJ, what do you mean post digital?
 
All the Hilliard stuff was recorded digitally rather than analog. ECM transitioned in the early 80's. Definitely ties into the change in their recording sound, i.e. the "ECM sound" they're known for.
 
Here are a few resources:

www.ecmrecords.com

You can order new ECM vinyl - not a ton of choices, but some neat stuff. And the shipping is cheap.

www.vinyltom.com

Crazy amounts of stuff, German used vinyl dealer, generally top drawer condition, German pressings (i.e., great), shipping costs not terrible.

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speakeasy.jazzcorner.com

The ECM records forum, almost as geeky as WD. Not a lot of traffic, but interesting. Make sure to check out the Ask ECM sticky...

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ecmreviews.com

A fun fan site. Be sure to download your collector's checklist!
 
originally posted by BJ:
All the Hilliard stuff was recorded digitally rather than analog. ECM transitioned in the early 80's. Definitely ties into the change in their recording sound, i.e. the "ECM sound" they're known for.
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So wouldn't it then rather be post-analogue than post-digital? Well anyways, I always lose myself in the music, so I never have anything worthwhile to say about recording qualities of different media. Perhaps this is a good thing: I can enjoy the good performances of great performers from the late 1800s onward.

There was a story about the great conductor Eugen Jochum, the Bruckner specialist, who had this same "problem". One acoustics engineer from the company he recorded for set up an early stereo system in his home, and Jochum was thrilled by the sound it produced. But his wife didn't like the look of things, so she rearranged the acoustician's layout to what, by this account, was very disadvantageous - yet Mr. Jochum was still enthralled with the music. I also have this flaw of losing myself in the music rather than the sound reproduction system, that I don't think I would see much of a difference between the two methods.
 
originally posted by Otto Nieminen:
originally posted by BJ:
All the Hilliard stuff was recorded digitally rather than analog. ECM transitioned in the early 80's. Definitely ties into the change in their recording sound, i.e. the "ECM sound" they're known for.
Click to expand...

So wouldn't it then rather be post-analogue than post-digital? Well anyways, I always lose myself in the music, so I never have anything worthwhile to say about recording qualities of different media. Perhaps this is a good thing: I can enjoy the good performances of great performers from the late 1800s onward.

There was a story about the great conductor Eugen Jochum, the Bruckner specialist, who had this same "problem". One acoustics engineer from the company he recorded for set up an early stereo system in his home, and Jochum was thrilled by the sound it produced. But his wife didn't like the look of things, so she rearranged the acoustician's layout to what, by this account, was very disadvantageous - yet Mr. Jochum was still enthralled with the music. I also have this flaw of losing myself in the music rather than the sound reproduction system, that I don't think I would see much of a difference between the two methods.
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I think I was using shorthand, i.e., post digital transition.

I happen to be listening right now to a German digital vinyl Eberhard Weber Chorus, and it is sublime.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
originally posted by Larry Stein:
I saw the Art Ensemble quite a few times at Yoshi's in the mid to late 90s, but Joseph Jarman wasn't in the group at that time. The only time I saw the full quintet was in the mid-70s at this tiny club in south Berkeley called Mapenzi. That club couldn't have held more than 50 patrons. I was in the front row getting my college-age mind blown.
Click to expand...

Larry, was there another sax-ist in place of Jarman? AAOC without Jarman is sort of like a bicycle without a wheel...or a seat, or handlebars, or something like that...

I love knowing that you know what I knew, from the front row point of view. I was there as often as possible.
Click to expand...

No, they toured as a quartet. They were still excellent. Jarman rejoined after Bowie passed away. They did play at Yoshi's in the early part of the decade with a different trumpet player. I always thought Famoudou Don Moye was one of the great jazz drummers.
 
originally posted by BJ:
Well, I just chalk it up to who and what he is. Beauty is a many splendored thing.

I will say that audiences nowadays are really bad, and the performer often has a perspective on the audience that people in the audience don't. Some performers at different times just can't take noise and that just goes with the territory. Live performance is to an extent co-created.
Click to expand...

I may have trotted this story out before, but my own experience with a Jarrett solo show was on the Piazza di Campidoglio in Rome in '83, while bumming around Europe that summer. My traveling companion and I saw a flyer for the show, scored tix and took our place in the Piazza for an amazing show, albeit one punctuated by a noise from the crowd sending Mr. Jarrett into a fetal ball for ca. 5 min. No abuse, though, and he then resumed his performance as if nothing had happened. Quite magical experience, all in all.

Mark Lipton
 
I tell ya, I sold my vinyl much too soon. I had no idea that it would make a comeback. 95% of my ECM records were the imported pressings, either from Germany or Japan.

I started buying imported vinyl in 1971. All of my Beatles and Stones discs were English (some replaced later by Japanese who pressed the best fidelity vinyl, as good as any 1/2-speed mastered release). I even purchased imports of US groups (Dylan, Dead, The Band, etc). In the early 70s, Telegraph Ave. in Bezerkeley was THE spot to buy these: Rasputin's, Leopold's, and Tower (and Rather Ripped Records on Northside).
 
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