Cayron & Pierre Andr at the tgjp

P

pab

pierre-alain benoit
Hello,
We made a great dinner at the tgjp in Paris last friday mostly grenache.
Whites with two Chablis 2005 from De Moor
Red's with Gigondas du Cayron (99, 00 & 01), CdP Pierre Andr (98, 00 & 01) & CdP Charvin 05.
Sweet with Juranon Vignau La Juscle 2006
See www.tgjp.com
Ask any questions on the forum and I will try to answer.
Best regards
pierre-alain benoit
 
Something happened to Cayron after 99. I still like the wines, but they are no longer old-fashioned agers as they used to be.

I expect if the 00 Pierre Andr had not been corked, it might still not have made people happy. Unless it's gotten better with age, it was an oddly candied wine for them. The 98 and the 01, on the other hand, I like very much, as well as the 99.

Laurent Charvin was kind enough to open an 05 for us when we were there this summer. I was quite happily surprised by how well it was drinking (he was both happy and surprised as well, as he has never been high on the vintage for him). I was afraid of the tannins in the 05, but I'm starting to rethink that. In any case, it is turning out to have been a real success for him (has he had a failure? the 04s and 06s are singing their little hearts out). I came home and bought more immediately.
 
I've been working my way slowly through a case of 01 Cayron I purchased on release, and it seems as though each bottle releases a fresh terror of some kind. The second before last tasted like liquid plumber, bizarre, caustic. We opened one this week that tasted like a combo of corkieness, pre-mox, and excessive after-harvest acidification. I have five left, and have started to look forward to them with a kind of fascinated horror, like the feeling you get before going to see a really gross, scary movie.
 
I stopped with Cayron in 2000, not by choice but because I haven't seen a single bottle since. It's as if the wine has been Chadderdonized from the market. So I admit to being curious about what's happened there.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've been working my way slowly through a case of 01 Cayron I purchased on release, and it seems as though each bottle releases a fresh terror of some kind. The second before last tasted like liquid plumber, bizarre. We opened one this week that tasted like a combo of corkieness, pre-mox, and excessive after-harvest acidification. I have five left, and have started to look forward to them with a kind of fascinated horror, like going to see a really gross, scary movie.
Click to expand...
You don't drink the whole bottle do you?
 
originally posted by Thor:
I stopped with Cayron in 2000, not by choice but because I haven't seen a single bottle since. It's as if the wine has been Chadderdonized from the market. So I admit to being curious about what's happened there.
Click to expand...
Looks like Kermit dropped them after 2003 or so. I recently tried a 2007 and was very disappointed. For me, this used to be the prototypical Gigondas producer (and fortunately, I still have some older bottles left).
 
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I've been working my way slowly through a case of 01 Cayron I purchased on release, and it seems as though each bottle releases a fresh terror of some kind. The second before last tasted like liquid plumber, bizarre. We opened one this week that tasted like a combo of corkieness, pre-mox, and excessive after-harvest acidification. I have five left, and have started to look forward to them with a kind of fascinated horror, like going to see a really gross, scary movie.
Click to expand...
You don't drink the whole bottle do you?
Click to expand...

Is this a trick question?
 
About the Cayron, my last nice vintage was the 97 : light in color & very close to a "mm" (Gramenon). The 98 was a pity. The 2003 a little bit dry. The 2005 very silky (new oenologue from ICV ?) and I stopped to buy.
Best regards
pierre-alain
 
I still buy a bottle or two to try when I'm there, hoping against hope. They are not bad, and certainly not spoofy as too many Gigondas's are these days. But there's less there there.

00 was the last one I bought a case of. I haven't had Ian's troubles. They just never move me to buy more.
 
originally posted by pab:

Hello,
He dropped... But, he bought also Les Pallieres. Maybe too many Gigondas in the portfolio !
Best regards
pierre-alain benoit
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He bought Pallires back in 1997, and so had many years of overlap with Cayron. Moreover, he usually carries multiple producers from a single appellation (e.g., he has four Bandol producers, three sometimes four or five Chablis producers, I can't count how many Meursault producers but a lot, three Cornas producers (going back to the days when Cornas was extremely obscure), three Muscadet producers, etc., so I would not ascribe it reasons of competition.
 
He bought Pallires back in 1997, and so had many years of overlap with Cayron. Moreover, he usually carries multiple producers from a single appellation (e.g., he has four Bandol producers, three sometimes four or five Chablis producers, I can't count how many Meursault producers but a lot, three Cornas producers (going back to the days when Cornas was extremely obscure), three Muscadet producers, etc., so I would not ascribe it reasons of competition.
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In 1997, Les Pallires were in a very bad state. Does KL owned also estates in Chablis, Cornas or Muscadet ?
 
He bought it in 97, but the first vintage was, I think, in 99. Les Pallieres is another one that I haven't liked as much recently as I did in 99 and 00. Truth to tell, though the 99s and since were a big step up from things that had been coming out since the late 80s, my favorites from this estate were the 83 and 85. Really, to my taste, only Raspail-Ay and Gour de Chaul are really making them like that much anymore.
 
originally posted by pab:
Click to expand...
He bought Pallires back in 1997, and so had many years of overlap with Cayron. Moreover, he usually carries multiple producers from a single appellation (e.g., he has four Bandol producers, three sometimes four or five Chablis producers, I can't count how many Meursault producers but a lot, three Cornas producers (going back to the days when Cornas was extremely obscure), three Muscadet producers, etc., so I would not ascribe it reasons of competition.[/quote]

In 1997, Les Pallires were in a very bad state. Does KL owned also estates in Chablis, Cornas or Muscadet ?
[/quote]Not to my knowledge, but so what? This seems to be a distinction without a difference. What is your logic for finding this distinction significant? Pallires was certainly in a better state in 2001 when Kermit sold a lot of the wine here.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
He bought it in 97, but the first vintage was, I think, in 99. Les Pallieres is another one that I haven't liked as much recently as I did in 99 and 00. Truth to tell, though the 99s and since were a big step up from things that had been coming out since the late 80s, my favorites from this estate were the 83 and 85. Really, to my taste, only Raspail-Ay and Gour de Chaul are really making them like that much anymore.
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God, I'd die for the equivalent of Raspail-Ay 1981, but what I've tasted recently in the US has all been oaked.
 
i'm a big fan of the gour de chaule, but i've only had the bottling made specially for neal. i believe it is an old vines selection... does anyone have any experience with the european bottling?
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
He bought it in 97, but the first vintage was, I think, in 99. Les Pallieres is another one that I haven't liked as much recently as I did in 99 and 00. Truth to tell, though the 99s and since were a big step up from things that had been coming out since the late 80s, my favorites from this estate were the 83 and 85. Really, to my taste, only Raspail-Ay and Gour de Chaul are really making them like that much anymore.
Click to expand...
God, I'd die for the equivalent of Raspail-Ay 1981, but what I've tasted recently in the US has all been oaked.
Click to expand...

Raspail-Ay, really? I don't think I've ever had it in the States, but I don't recall new wood on what I've had in France
 
The problem is that several of Pierre-Alain's messages are malformatted. The first problem stems from a leading close-quote tag, and then everything proceeds from there.
 
originally posted by Cliff:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
He bought it in 97, but the first vintage was, I think, in 99. Les Pallieres is another one that I haven't liked as much recently as I did in 99 and 00. Truth to tell, though the 99s and since were a big step up from things that had been coming out since the late 80s, my favorites from this estate were the 83 and 85. Really, to my taste, only Raspail-Ay and Gour de Chaul are really making them like that much anymore.
Click to expand...
God, I'd die for the equivalent of Raspail-Ay 1981, but what I've tasted recently in the US has all been oaked.
Click to expand...

Raspail-Ay, really? I don't think I've ever had it in the States, but I don't recall new wood on what I've had in France
Click to expand...
We get them here in CA -- I think perhaps a special cuve for the US market. Ugh!
 
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