Cayron & Pierre Andr at the tgjp

Yes, they can go longer, but how many really need the time to get interesting? Maybe some, but I can't think of any Gigondas off the top of my head. Vacqueyras is another matter.
 
Hmmm, sounds gross. I've never come across fizzy, but I tend not to seek out Gigondas in the States and have only had a handful of Cayrons in the past decade, I think all of them younger than that.
 
Pallires is a very different terroir from most of Gigondas -- much higher up. The wine traditionally has been called the Burgundy of Gigondas. My guess is that lovers of regular Gigondas won't be crazy about Pallires, those that don't like full-throttle Gigondas may be intrigued by Pallires.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Pallires is a very different terroir from most of Gigondas -- much higher up. The wine traditionally has been called the Burgundy of Gigondas. My guess is that lovers of regular Gigondas won't be crazy about Pallires, those that don't like full-throttle Gigondas may be intrigued by Pallires.
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This is what is so weird to me about them - they're supposed to be like this, and yet I have to drink any Kermit Pallieres that I remotely liked.
 
originally posted by BJ:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Pallires is a very different terroir from most of Gigondas -- much higher up. The wine traditionally has been called the Burgundy of Gigondas. My guess is that lovers of regular Gigondas won't be crazy about Pallires, those that don't like full-throttle Gigondas may be intrigued by Pallires.
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This is what is so weird to me about them - they're supposed to be like this, and yet I have to drink any Kermit Pallieres that I remotely liked.
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I second that. Whatever is going on with Pallieres is not terroir, I don't think. Lovers of traditionaL Gigondas, or at least this one, liked the stuff the terroir produced in the 80s.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

I second that. Whatever is going on with Pallieres is not terroir, I don't think. Lovers of traditionaL Gigondas, or at least this one, liked the stuff the terroir produced in the 80s.
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The stuff in the 1980s and before was virtually unique -- kept five years before bottling.
 
I guess I'd like some specificity in this discussion. I was saying that I haven't liked Pallieres since 00 or 01. I did not mean that I found them too like those from les Hauts (there are others) or too tannic, but that I found the wines had little character other than syrupiness. It's also the case that I haven't tried any since the 04 or 05 and, as I said above, a lot of Gigs didn't do that well in at least03 and 04. It may be that I would like the 07s. No doubt I will see.

But at least let's keep the disagreement clear. It's really not about not liking Gigs that are less intense but rather the reverse. So we are actually just disagreeing about what we are tasting.
 
I admit that Kermit's breathless Pallires hype has inspired me to buy more bottles than I would otherwise have based on how much I like the wine...which, for me, exhibits the oversized and over-tactile character of something much more modern than I usually prefer. It doesn't taste modern, exactly, but it certainly carries the brawn and a...I dunno, I'd call it offputting...texture. So I guess I agree with Jonathan and Brad's read on the wine.

I don't dislike the wine. But at current prices, I'd almost always rather have two bottles of something I like more.

Can we get Texier some Gigondas?
 
originally posted by Thor:
I admit that Kermit's breathless Pallires hype has inspired me to buy more bottles than I would otherwise have based on how much I like the wine...which, for me, exhibits the oversized and over-tactile character of something much more modern than I usually prefer. It doesn't taste modern, exactly, but it certainly carries the brawn and a...I dunno, I'd call it offputting...texture. So I guess I agree with Jonathan and Brad's read on the wine.

I don't dislike the wine. But at current prices, I'd almost always rather have two bottles of something I like more.
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Curious that you bought it, anyway. I buy a bottle to taste every year (two in the case of 2007 and from here on, I suppose), but except for the 2001 that Premier Cru was dumping and I think maybe I did buy some 1998 or 1999, I find other wines to eat up my money (and they're usually not Grenache-based ones).
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Forget ripe and formless, most of the 1998 and 2000 Cayron I have opened has been fizzy.
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David,

I opened a 98 a few weeks ago-no fizz for me-actually drinking quite well-and was looking for the fizz as I have seen your notes-this was my first bottle that I opened of the 98's.

mark meyer
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Bouissiere has never done it for me. But I've never had more than a taste at the Caveau. Maybe I should visit a bottle.

I think the turning point at Cayron may have been the death of the old man, Faraud (Gabriel?). But the winemaking hasn't changed as far as I know.

The Pallieres is OK, but goopy. They are doing something in terms of ripening or elevage, but it beats me as to what it is.

I liked St. Damien in 01 and 05. It has gotten stratospheric Parker ratings since then and Cambie has arrived. Both bad signs. But they may still be good. Cambie has arrived at Domaine de la Garrigue, and I still like their wines--except for a weird new special cuvee of the Vacqueyras.

I've only tried Bourjasot recently, but I liked their normal cuvee. There are a few new ones who may be worth following yet.
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Prof,

Have you tasted Goubert lately?

I just checked Raspail prices as I remember buying the 98/99 for around $10-I see it is now 27-wow.

mark meyer
 
originally posted by mark meyer:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Bouissiere has never done it for me. But I've never had more than a taste at the Caveau. Maybe I should visit a bottle.

I think the turning point at Cayron may have been the death of the old man, Faraud (Gabriel?). But the winemaking hasn't changed as far as I know.

The Pallieres is OK, but goopy. They are doing something in terms of ripening or elevage, but it beats me as to what it is.

I liked St. Damien in 01 and 05. It has gotten stratospheric Parker ratings since then and Cambie has arrived. Both bad signs. But they may still be good. Cambie has arrived at Domaine de la Garrigue, and I still like their wines--except for a weird new special cuvee of the Vacqueyras.

I've only tried Bourjasot recently, but I liked their normal cuvee. There are a few new ones who may be worth following yet.
Click to expand...

Prof,

Have you tasted Goubert lately?

I just checked Raspail prices as I remember buying the 98/99 for around $10-I see it is now 27-wow.

mark meyer
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I've probably tasted Goubert in the past couple of years. Despite my anti-oak principles, I've always liked the Florence, but it is getting too expensive and not that distinctive for me. The regular Goubert is, well, regular.

I think I payed between $15-20 for both the 98 and the 01. Different exchange rate, different price at the domaine in those days. It's still around 12 euros there, but double that price gets you to the going rate here. Alas, with wine, so it goes.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by mark meyer:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Bouissiere has never done it for me. But I've never had more than a taste at the Caveau. Maybe I should visit a bottle.

I think the turning point at Cayron may have been the death of the old man, Faraud (Gabriel?). But the winemaking hasn't changed as far as I know.

The Pallieres is OK, but goopy. They are doing something in terms of ripening or elevage, but it beats me as to what it is.

I liked St. Damien in 01 and 05. It has gotten stratospheric Parker ratings since then and Cambie has arrived. Both bad signs. But they may still be good. Cambie has arrived at Domaine de la Garrigue, and I still like their wines--except for a weird new special cuvee of the Vacqueyras.

I've only tried Bourjasot recently, but I liked their normal cuvee. There are a few new ones who may be worth following yet.
Click to expand...

Prof,

Have you tasted Goubert lately?

I just checked Raspail prices as I remember buying the 98/99 for around $10-I see it is now 27-wow.

mark meyer
Click to expand...

I've probably tasted Goubert in the past couple of years. Despite my anti-oak principles, I've always liked the Florence, but it is getting too expensive and not that distinctive for me. The regular Goubert is, well, regular.

I think I payed between $15-20 for both the 98 and the 01. Different exchange rate, different price at the domaine in those days. It's still around 12 euros there, but double that price gets you to the going rate here. Alas, with wine, so it goes.
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Prof,

Interestingly in Livingtone-Learmonth 78/83 The Wines of the Rhone he lists Goubert as one of the top 4 in Gigondas-the other 3 are Pallieres,St Gayan and Longue-Toque. I drink St Gayan in Australia and love it-seems to be harder to find here in the US-it tastes like predominantly Grenache to me. Is Longue-Toque still around? If not, what is it part of now? TIA.

mark meyer
 
Gour de Chaul bought Longue Toque in 95-97 (?) and sold it in 02 or 03 to Gabriel Meffre (negotiant and estate).
Best regards
pierre-alain benoit
 
St. Gayan is alive and well. I don't see it in the US. I haven't tasted it since the 05, which I quite liked. It's another one that is very variable.
 
originally posted by mark meyer:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Forget ripe and formless, most of the 1998 and 2000 Cayron I have opened has been fizzy.
Click to expand...

David,

I opened a 98 a few weeks ago-no fizz for me-actually drinking quite well-and was looking for the fizz as I have seen your notes-this was my first bottle that I opened of the 98's.

mark meyer
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I will dig one up and see how they are doing. Thanks.
 
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