Short case
- Thread starter Florida Jim
- Start date
Oliver McCrum
Oliver McCrum
Jim,
I'm wrestling with Brett and low SO2 with a few of my producers; would you expand on this?
Florida Jim
Florida Jim
Oliver,
I'm not sure what you're looking for here.
My understanding is that brett can exist even with SO2 in solution - always dependent upon the population of the brett and the quantity of free SO2.
Once brett has a sufficient population, SO2 alone won't kill it.
There are some "cures" but none of them are completely effective except sterile filtration - and even then, some of the critters may get through.
The best defense is immaculate sanitation.
I do know that sterile filtration can knock the brett down to a population so small that Velcorin can kill it. But that's a whole lot of "cure" when the problem should have been taken care of long before bottling.
If you want to talk about this more, try me at:
jim@cowancellars.com
Best, Jim
U
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Since plagiarism is intolerable, I must state my references first.
What's the difference between an Italian and a Jewish mother? The former says, if you don't eat this, I will kill you. The latter, if you don't eat this, I will kill myself.
So, when opening a wine with a fake cork, throw the wine away. When opening a wine under screw cap, throw yourself in the dumpster.
Jim,
I believe that you're conflating two separate problems. The first is a brett infection, which enough SO2 or sterile filtration or even velcorin will eliminate. However, if the beasties have been resident in your wine a while, the flavor components that they impart will remain, much as TCA does in cork taint. In that latter case, no amount of SO2, velcorin or filtration will reduce the problem as they can't remove the small aromatic contaminants left behind by brett.
Mark Lipton
Florida Jim
Florida Jim
Mark,
I don't pretend to know the chemistry here but I have seen/tasted brett and its flavor components eliminated by sterile filtration. Perhaps, there was still some residual of the flavor/aroma components left in the wine but I could not detect them when tasting.
A brett infection in wine can be treated with SO2, sterile filtration or Velcorin - however, if the population is of sufficient size, the only one that MAY kill them all is sterile filtration or a combination of sterile filtration and Velcorin.
SO2 is not terribly effective against an established brett infection - it may be able to keep a population under control or reduce it somewhat - and I suppose, if the population was small enough, kill it.
The size of the population is extremely important in figuring out how to deal with it.
Or such is my understanding of the problem.
Best, Jim
Oliver McCrum
Oliver McCrum
Jim,
I'm confused; I thought that a proper SO2 regime was the normal way of controlling Brett (other than sterile filtration, obviously). I don't think Velcorin is an option for most smaller winemakers.
At least some of the Brett by-products can be removed osmotically, apparently, by Clark Smith's former company.
I'm confused; I thought that a proper SO2 regime was the normal way of controlling Brett (other than sterile filtration, obviously). I don't think Velcorin is an option for most smaller winemakers.
At least some of the Brett by-products can be removed osmotically, apparently, by Clark Smith's former company.
Florida Jim
Florida Jim
I am also confused.
But the guys with the degrees are talking so I think I'll listen some more.
Best, Jim
Anyone ever try to age a fauxrk-ed bottle "en pointe?"
A recent compare/contrast between bottles in an '02 case of Poire Granit makes me wonder. It had been stored with the bottles vertically- half cork up, half cork down. The cork up wines all had dried out corks and oxidized contents. The cork down, as one might guess from riddling and sur lie practices, were lovely.
I recognize we're talking about different materials, with different permeability, etc. But I'm curious if the weight of the wine on the cork and lack of any potential air pocket might create a tighter seal.
Might be worth turning a few of my Bruns and CRBs on their heads as an experiment.
A recent compare/contrast between bottles in an '02 case of Poire Granit makes me wonder. It had been stored with the bottles vertically- half cork up, half cork down. The cork up wines all had dried out corks and oxidized contents. The cork down, as one might guess from riddling and sur lie practices, were lovely.
I recognize we're talking about different materials, with different permeability, etc. But I'm curious if the weight of the wine on the cork and lack of any potential air pocket might create a tighter seal.
Might be worth turning a few of my Bruns and CRBs on their heads as an experiment.
Well, the fake corks allow early oxygen ingress and this fact is known to the producers (I'm not sure how they sell them, but I'd hope they mention it). But it's not like bark cork, where moisture plays a role in cellular expansion. The plastic just shrinks, and as far as I remember via the designer, it always shrinks.
So I wouldn't hold any, in any position. Cork can fail, screwcap won't fail (barring impact) though there may be other issues, but synth cork will fail. Sooner or later, but mostly sooner and for very young values of later.
So I wouldn't hold any, in any position. Cork can fail, screwcap won't fail (barring impact) though there may be other issues, but synth cork will fail. Sooner or later, but mostly sooner and for very young values of later.