Pernand-Vergelesses drops off a cliff

originally posted by robert ames:
well, yes, it seems that dry red wines can sweeten with age. i forget if it was matt kramer or jamie goode (or someone else) where i read it, but it seems that there are compounds in the polyphenols of red wine that do evolve into some esoteric compound of the sugar family. they become '-oses' of some sort.

but i think that the timeline for this to happen is in the two to three decade range.
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Oh mannnnn. You don't know how this warms the cockles of my heart.
 
Is there a scholarship program I can apply for, to learn more about Pernand-Vergelesses and become a qualified participant in these discussions?
 
dear mister coad, while you clearly state that your heart has cockles, still i wonder if in fact it has mussels. (or whelks!)
 
originally posted by robert ames:
dear mister coad, while you clearly state that your heart has cockles, still i wonder if in fact it has mussels. (or whelks!)
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I can aver that my heart is alive, alive, oh!
 
Rossignol is for skiing, not for drinking.

Rollin often delights, though. In both colors.

And Dubreuil-Fontaine is, in my limited experience, generally excellent.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
Is there a scholarship program I can apply for, to learn more about Pernand-Vergelesses and become a qualified participant in these discussions?
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Yes, you can ask me to open one the next time we're both at CWS. I have a few Rollins on hand.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Rossignol is for skiing, not for drinking.

Rollin often delights, though. In both colors.

And Dubreuil-Fontaine is, in my limited experience, generally excellent.
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Wow. The Levi and I are on the same page again.

I may need therapy, except that's closed.

I'll settle for scotch.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
originally posted by .sasha:
Is there a scholarship program I can apply for, to learn more about Pernand-Vergelesses and become a qualified participant in these discussions?
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Yes, you can ask me to open one the next time we're both at CWS. I have a few Rollins on hand.
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I am sorry, I am not allowed to accept any more contributions at this time.

Do you ever feel like Pernand from Chandon de Briailles has too much dirt? I can't even begin to estimate when to drink these things, certainly not an age that I like in most of my red burgs.
 
originally posted by VLM:
I may need therapy, except that's closed.
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Mostly. I noticed that an Albanian is posting into one of the locked fora. Seems even more pointless than usual, but maybe anything goes in Albania.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
Do you ever feel like Pernand from Chandon de Briailles has too much dirt? I can't even begin to estimate when to drink these things, certainly not an age that I like in most of my red burgs.
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So if I understand this correctly you are complaining that the wines take too long to come around? Weren't you the one who visited the domaine and had nothing but positive things to say about their winemaking style?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by VLM:
I may need therapy, except that's closed.
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Mostly. I noticed that an Albanian is posting into one of the locked fora. Seems even more pointless than usual, but maybe anything goes in Albania.
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Those Albanians are getting fancier by the minute.

Nice not to see them around lately.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by .sasha:
Do you ever feel like Pernand from Chandon de Briailles has too much dirt? I can't even begin to estimate when to drink these things, certainly not an age that I like in most of my red burgs.
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So if I understand this correctly you are complaining that the wines take too long to come around? Weren't you the one who visited the domaine and had nothing but positive things to say about their winemaking style?
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Correct, I am a huge fan. They even managed to pull off drinkable 06 whites, which is quite an accomplishment.

But I don't have experience with aged Pernand from them, with either bottling. Or from anyone else, so I don't really know the terroir either. So the simple question for me - with this kind of intense minerality, and the winemaking style which contributes to less than generous presentation in the first few years after bottling ( i.e. 15-yr old wood, whole clusters, etc ), will these wines hit maturity at a point where the complexity is struck while plenty of youthfulness of fruit and what we like to call AOC distinctiveness is still maintained?

It's more a question of curiousity for me, rather then concerns for the wines' ultimate quality. And their Savigny and Cortons do age beautifully.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
It's more a question of curiousity for me, rather then concerns for the wines' ultimate quality. And their Savigny and Cortons do age beautifully.
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Ok, fair enough.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Likely what's going on is that some of those polyphenols exist initially as their glycosides (there's a sugar attached to the oxygens of the phenols) which will eventually hydrolyze, affording a sugar. I wouldn't expect that it would take decades for that to happen, but what do I, a mere chemist, know?

Mark Lipton
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Word.

Actually, chalk me up for Rollin, too.
 
Due to intermittent internet connections I missed this discussion the first time around.

The wine did go over a cliff, but it had a more interesting perfume that Sharon gives it credit for (yes the cherries were smashed, but by a lovely earthen hammer).

The Bandol may well have been the better choice, but food pairing would have been significantly more dodgy.

And as for being plied with tastes, the '96 Jaboulet Crozes was cooked, but the '99 was lovely.
 
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