Scholium

Over on Another Forum™, I can't even begin to guess how many times I've read variations on "wine is made from fruit, wine should taste like fruit" from consumers and West Coast winemakers. While I'm sure that some of this can be attributed to language, I've never once heard a winemaker from anywhere else -- other than Australia -- say that or anything akin to it. (Consumers from elsewhere, yes.) That doesn't preclude their belief in the idea, and their wines often reflect the likelihood that they do in fact follow the cult of fruit, but they tend not to express it in such simple terms.

Part of the problem is that when you try to have a conversation about the idea, people who say such things cannot fathom you mean anything other than either wine faults or a lesser wine ("lesser," of course, means "less fruit"). It's not just that they disagree with other preferences, is that the idea that the only consequence of less fruit is less fruit rather than more of something else in exchange, and that the only form not-fruit can take is something unpleasant, like brett. It's a complete fork in the road in terms of preferences, rather than just the usual branches and divergences.

I think, though, that the oenologist in the Piedmont had it right: there's a lot of technology (some of it modern, some of it old but repurposed) being applied to wines to keep them as much like freshly-pressed and/or INOX-preserved juice -- I dislike that word when applied to wine but use it here deliberately -- as possible. And in a way, were it not for the sulfur issue, a lot of the "natural wines" are almost exactly what these fruit-adoring folks are looking for, except that they tend to be made from the less massive and fruity grapes. Were they all made from grenache, syrah, and so forth, in hot climates and with a little more sulfur than is currently the norm, I think you'd see a certain embrace of the category from some of the people who typically argue about how much Carlisle and Sea Smoke they've been allocated this year.
 
Thor,

Regarding the idea that some can't fathom less fruit being anything but a fault, I see it as a difference without a distinction. They like what they like - and god bless them for it.

Carlisle and Sea Smoke sell out.
Once again, god bless 'em.

Scholium makes some of the weirdest stuff I have tried in the 40 years I have been drinking wine. They make 3,600 cases a year, charge hefty prices and seem to be getting along just fine.

'Plenty of room at the table . . .

Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
I'm still digesting this.

So is this a fairly clear cut paradigm shift (parallelling technological developments) at a certain time in the last 20-30 yrs? 40-50 yrs?

Before such a shift, what was the defining mark of good wine? (And are we talking about dry reds mostly, or wines of all sorts? Depending on the grape at least, hasn't capturing fruit been on the list of priorities, if not at the top, for longer than that?)

Joel:

Before the change I'd say that "good wine" was defined by things like drinkability, balance, and utility, all of a type almost completely divorced from the issue of whether or not primary fruit characters remained.
Old timey winegrowing understood that the grape-to-wine change was one where fruit character, through chemical oxidation and microbial activity, was inevitably diminished, replaced by other characters.
The task of vinification was then one of managing this transformation in a way that avoided rampant oxidation or microbial spoilage.

Take the sentence immediately above and show it to a "modern" winemaker and I imagine they'd say "That's exactly what I do".
But the differences in what constitutes (for today's winemaker vs. those of a few decades ago) acceptable levels of oxidation or microbial influence are profound.
In the late 70s and early 80s I had the chance to bounce back and forth between Napa and Bordeaux a few times. This was at a time when the shift was in full swing in California, yet hadn't really penetrated too deeply into Europe.... the practices used were still quite different, and the goals for winemaking were miles apart.
The Bordelaise tasted bottled Napa Cab and pronounced them "infantile". Napa winemakers turned up their noses at many Bordeaux wines as they were spoiled or tired.
That doesn't happen as much anymore as the New World model has crowded out the Old.

And, yes, the same shift has happened in white wines.
In some regions the change has been less pronounced... Germany, with its cold cellars, love of SO2 and long-term reliance on filtration (much of the filtration technology I'm talking of in this thread was developed by the Germans), have long been producing fruitier styled wine.
Southern Europe, warmer and far less financially capable of buying in new technologies until recently, has seen a far greater shift over the past few decades.

Regards,

PS: How's the show coming together?
 
I wonder if there is a connection between the public having a better water supply (at some point) influencing winemaking changes. (Having heard that one of wines early functions was providing a less-dangerous-than water option for rehydtrating/cooking, etc.) Seems it could have had an effect on winemaking nearly as much as photography did on painting. I.e., now that we're clear of the hygiene duty, we're free to tweak this thing!

This part of winemaking fascinates me.

I sent you a group mail yesterday...let me know if you did'nt get it. We take the whole work into the warehouse on Monday, and for a month build it and play with it, and document it. I think it should go smoothly, so come down if you can (we have the space till 10/26...and lots will get done in between). Also, have some friends coming in from the US, both wine and sake freaks...we will have some good tastings of natural sakes and wine, plus Musars, Prager, CLouet, Macle, and a list of muroka genshu namas to go thru as well...would be great if you join us for an evening. Just let me know...would love to try some wines you have had a hand in.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
I wonder if there is a connection between the public having a better water supply (at some point) influencing winemaking changes. (Having heard that one of wines early functions was providing a less-dangerous-than water option for rehydtrating/cooking, etc.) Seems it could have had an effect on winemaking nearly as much as photography did on painting. I.e., now that we're clear of the hygiene duty, we're free to tweak this thing!

I'd say it had a profound influence.
the lack of a dependable water supply probably pushed "light/thirst-quenching/low alcohol" to the fore as desirable characters. Once safe water was made available, those characters were likely deemed less critical.
For us here in Japan I think this same phenomenon also explains why alcohol never became an important part of the dinner table to any large extent.... a supply of good, potable water was never really a problem here.

I sent you a group mail yesterday...let me know if you did'nt get it. We take the whole work into the warehouse on Monday, and for a month build it and play with it, and document it. I think it should go smoothly, so come down if you can (we have the space till 10/26...and lots will get done in between). Also, have some friends coming in from the US, both wine and sake freaks...we will have some good tastings of natural sakes and wine, plus Musars, Prager, CLouet, Macle, and a list of muroka genshu namas to go thru as well...would be great if you join us for an evening. Just let me know...would love to try some wines you have had a hand in.

Just checked now.... got the group mail. I would love to come down, but it's a pretty hectic time of year for the next two months or so....

Cheers,
 
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