I still love natural wine

originally posted by Yixin:
Sticking a natural wine in a lineup of venerables is akin, in my view, to putting a ripe(r) Cal Cab in a line up of just-released claret. It sticks because it sticks out.
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The wines I was referring to were tasted in the same day, but not side by side. It was different occasions.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I had a pretty great experience recently with a 2004 Els Jelipins. On my first sniff, I thought, "Oh, no, generic hipster wine." But it changed and changed and changed in the glass and proved to be most engaging company. Nothing simple about it.

Renewed my faith.
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I was thinking production, but expect you'll disagree there, too.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
Bravo Levi!

I have loved so many producers that fall under the natural wine rubric that I can do nothing other than support them. I have also enjoyed any number of wines that do not fall in that category. And I've had some wine fails which a bit more sulphur might have prevented but it's worth it to me because of the excitement of when it works (which for the good producers is most of the time).
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Well said Jay.

This has to be the worst time to give up on the "natural" wine movement. We have the chance to be exposed to such a wide choice and better understand and appreciate those wines that giving up, for whatever reasons it is, would be stupid.
And if it becomes uncool (not sure if it really ever became cool in the 1st place) to drink, true, authentic wines with a sould, well let it be. The better for people like us.
As Jay, I'll keep supporting those producers 100% while also keeping an open mind on other wines (just because I would not mind trying a 1970 Mission!!).
 
As Keith says, in truth it's a matter of degree.

I think the reaction against "natural" wine is symptomatic of the recent Parker screed in Philadelphia. The age of the all-knowing point-assigning expert is over. Folks can get lots of information free over the internet. And think of the average person going into a wine store not knowing what to buy, and, instead of simply grabbing a "90 Parker Points" or asking some under age clerk, they can now browse CellarTracker on their phone or just text their friend who does know something about wines. Whenever authority gets threatened, it fights back. "Natural" wines is an easy target since it does overlap some with what is undermining authority and sounds so political correct. But this is mainly about what the producers of the glossy magazines fear a lot more. Expect a Chinese edition of Wine Spectator any day.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Thanks VS for a balanced statement and thanks Levi for a strong statement.

I abandoned the term Natural Wines because it was starting to become too popular. Not that there is a backlash, I can once again embrace the term with unnatural fervor.
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Thank you for those bottles you shared with me last week.
Duboeuf Beaujolais O8'
Cupcake Chardonnay 09'
Chateau Haut-Crado 05'
 
originally posted by lucertoran:
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
Thanks VS for a balanced statement and thanks Levi for a strong statement.

I abandoned the term Natural Wines because it was starting to become too popular. Not that there is a backlash, I can once again embrace the term with unnatural fervor.
Click to expand...
Thank you for those bottles you shared with me last week.
Duboeuf Beaujolais O8'
Cupcake Chardonnay 09'
Chateau Haut-Crado 05'
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Man, even you couldn't get any 2009 Beaujolais? This is just crazy.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Yixin:
Sticking a natural wine in a lineup of venerables is akin, in my view, to putting a ripe(r) Cal Cab in a line up of just-released claret. It sticks because it sticks out.
Click to expand...

The wines I was referring to were tasted in the same day, but not side by side. It was different occasions.
Click to expand...

But still enough of a comparative environment to state that one wine stuck in the memory. Just sayin', y'know.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Yixin:
Sticking a natural wine in a lineup of venerables is akin, in my view, to putting a ripe(r) Cal Cab in a line up of just-released claret. It sticks because it sticks out.
Click to expand...

The wines I was referring to were tasted in the same day, but not side by side. It was different occasions.
Click to expand...

But still enough of a comparative environment to state that one wine stuck in the memory. Just sayin', y'know.
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Sure. Except I opened up 30 some odd Orange wines the night before, so it probably was more than just different-iation.
 
Yes, Brother Levi. Viva Marcel! And for all the counterrevolutionaries who claim that "natural" is so hard to define, let's remember Marcel's words: "Natural wine, it's not a doctrine, it's an ideal; the ideal, it's to vinify without additives, respecting the terroir . . . and the vintage." What is so confusing, and how could you not love this?
 
It was Eric Texier who alerted me that making a "natural wine" had become a political act.

As someone said once about politics, I didn't abandon natural wine, it abandoned me.
 
originally posted by VLM:


It was Eric Texier who alerted me that making a "natural wine" had become a political act.

As someone said once about politics, I didn't abandon natural wine, it abandoned me.
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You were opposed to the copinage platform?
 
originally posted by John Roberts:

....Viva Marcel! ...respecting the terroir . . . and the vintage." What is so confusing, and how could you not love this?
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Well, this is specifically were the debate begun, at least as far as I am concern.
Marcel's wines don't taste neither like a lambic, a cider, or a carbonic fruit salad from anywhere on the planet.

They taste like gamay from the granitic soils of Morgon. And 2009 doesn't taste like 2008 or 2007.

So Marcel like most of the original natural producers was very attached to the terroir/vintage notions.

Is it still the case a whole lot of the "hard core" natural wines today?

A lambic doesn't need any vintage. Neither does an overripe carrignan made in carbonic maceration.
 
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by John Roberts:

....Viva Marcel! ...respecting the terroir . . . and the vintage." What is so confusing, and how could you not love this?
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Well, this is specifically were the debate begun, at least as far as I am concern.
Marcel's wines don't taste neither like a lambic, a cider, or a carbonic fruit salad from anywhere on the planet.

They taste like gamay from the granitic soils of Morgon. And 2009 doesn't taste like 2008 or 2007.

So Marcel like most of the original natural producers was very attached to the terroir/vintage notions.

Is it still the case a whole lot of the "hard core" natural wines today?

A lambic doesn't need any vintage. Neither does an overripe carrignan made in carbonic maceration.
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Thank you for taking the time to weigh in. Your view is always an intelligent and observant one.
 
originally posted by Joe Dressner:
In total agreement with Eric!

Here, Hear!
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Do you suspect that lambic notes might be found in terroir reflective wines that also show their vintage characteristics? Or is that out of the question?

I'm specifically thinking of Camillo Donati Malvasia Frizzante Secco and Ca' del Noci "Notte di Luna."

Do you think it is possible that certain other grapes, native to areas other than Burgundy, might lend more of those notes to a finished wine than Gamay would?

Do you think that the Burgundy terroir lense is the single one by which we should try to view all the wines of the entire world? What if a region, such as Emilia, Jerez, or the Caucasus, for example, have longstanding, local winemaking traditions that mediate against the expression of vine site in the finished wine?
 
Good questions all. You can add traditional Rioja, such as LdH, for which treatment in the cellar and aging techniques are crucial, way above terroir considerations.
 
originally posted by VS:
Good questions all. You can add traditional Rioja, such as LdH, for which treatment in the cellar and aging techniques are crucial, way above terroir considerations.
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What cellar treatments and aging techniques do you think are responsible for Bosconia and Tondonia tasting so different from each other?
 
originally posted by VS:
Good questions all. You can add traditional Rioja, such as LdH, for which treatment in the cellar and aging techniques are crucial, way above terroir considerations.
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Vin Jaune wouldn't taste like it tastes without the specific cellar treatment. Therefore I see the traditional cellar techniques that allow the expression of nuances between producers and parcels as part of the terroir, in its french acceptance, which is not only the soil and the climate, but also specific history and culture concerning an agricultural product.

And when a rioja beging to taste like any international spoofed wine or like any carbonic natural soup then terroir is gone. Definitely not with the same intention but gone anyway.
Since I don't drink philosophical intentions, either way to hide/kill the terroir won't find any support from me as a drinker or a winemaker.

After all maybe I am too old school, even ractionnaire. Like a lovely young women said to me not long ago when arguing about one of these terrible bretty over-alcoholic generic vin de table from anywhere but sooooo natural with a cartoon label :
"Terroir is such a petit bourgeois notion"!!!!

Wine revolution really doesn't need it anymore.
 
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