Who's cross?

[Jeff Grossman]

And, while I'm at it: Had there been anything inspired done with "varietal" I, too, would have applauded the effort. It is actually one of the beauties of English: having taken bits & pieces from many other languages it is now rather flexible and replete with opportunities for startling conjunctions of meaning...

...into which category the use of "varietal" for "variety" does not fall.

One must not confuse the unusual with the merely wrong.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

I had a swimming coach 15 years ago who always wrote up his workouts in terms of lengths. It soon became apparent he meant laps. I confronted him about this, pointing out that length is going to the end of the pool, while a lap is going there and back. He replied "I use 'length' and 'lap' interchangeably - to me they mean the same thing." I argued with him, told him to consult the dictionary, etc., to no avail. The interesting thing was, this guy was our best coach; he was the best before our verbal altercation, he was the best after, and swimming for him is still a fond memory.

This episode calls to mind Ralph Emerson's memorable quip: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
Or maybe an interdiction board?

And to answer the original question, Cheval Blanc is roughly 60% Cabernet Franc and 40% Merlot, with a little Cabernet Sauvignon and Malbec used to varying degrees depending upon the vintage (they've got those varieties planted in their vineyards but don't necessarily feel compelled to use them unless appropriate).

-Eden (I say "tomato")

Eden - thanks, I knew just saying CF was too simple. But the point is still valid, isn't it? CF is the main grape used to make one of the world's great wines (or so I hear; I've never had the stuff myself).

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

-Sharon (just hoping SFJoe cooks up some Axolotl next time I'm in NY)

For the neoteny?

 

[Eden Mylunsch]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Eden, you're being kind (and brilliant, as is usual; stuff of winegeek dreams, your posts),

Thanks for your kind words, but eewwww. "winegeek dreams"? Sounds kind of messy....

but somewhat antiintellectual, which is sucky. Of course we know he means "variety" when he says "varietal." Should I say, "Me and him went to the store"? Or "Between you and I" (uuuuugh)?

You've obviously never heard me try to speak French. Antiintellectualism is the new intellectual, which was sucky last week. It may be a generational thing, this degeneration of the language. As we move to memes ruling the roost we become used to soaking up the idea of information, if not the real data. I'm dismayed at times by the inability of some of my friends to differentiate between where apostrophes are supposed to go (or not go) but I've got other, better reasons to get ulcers. Being able to read through grammatical errors or misused words has certain benefits because you eventually move into recognizing sentence structure and can identify which is the noun, verb, pronoun, and the connective tissue so that I can even get the general gist of things not written in English. And texting has sure made it easier to make my way around Croatian and any other language lacking in vowels.

Stand staunch.

I tried that once while filling in for a RN friend in the OR but fainted dead away. I did better the next time when I sat in on the clamps.

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
But the point is still valid, isn't it? CF is the main grape used to make one of the world's great wines (or so I hear; I've never had the stuff myself).

The point is definitely valid, the last 17 pages of discussion hinge on improper language use, a thread highjack of honorable proportions. My favorite Cabernet Franc comes from Chinon, but I've been known to swill properly aged right bank juice when it's been offered (pass me more of that Petrus, puh-leeze), and even the occasional northern Italian or South Australian CF that slinks past my plate. It's not that I don't like Bordeaux or new world versions of CF as much as there are just other grape varieties I find more interesting and prefer to drink. In the end, the wines we drink should be decided on personal preference rather than peer pressure based on points, values, or politics.

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
One must not confuse the unusual with the merely wrong.

I like it both ways. Have you heard Kenny G's version of "Giant Steps"?

originally posted by SFJoe:
For the neoteny?

You should be trying to break up the neoteny...

-Eden (to hell with the diction board, I'm going to go post on the water board)

 

[Thor]

Axolotl

Joe's cooking Duncan Idaho?

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
One must not confuse the unusual with the merely wrong.

I like it both ways. Have you heard Kenny G's version of "Giant Steps"?

Please, Eden. Try to maintain basic human standards of decency.

I've got other, better reasons to get ulcers

Well, so do we all, but here in lack-of-orderland we have to take our pogroms where we find them: the rampant misuse of "varietal" and "double-blind," knuckling under to calling Musigny "Moose," correlations of purple with latitude, Brad Kane, how many consecutive marks of punctuation constitute an illegal emoticon, how many INAO regulations are being broken at Lafarge, melon de bourgogne auslese as a marketing opportunity, and whether or not chardonnay is any good as a cooking wine.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

Axolotl

It was a Cortzar reference.

Now to crawl back under my rock.

 

[Thor]

But the beauty of references is that they can be taken in innumerable directions, no? I, for example, was shamelessly pandering to a different geek crowd. Hey, we all have our memes...

And you're crawling under a rock after that outrageous chardonnay-related provocation? Will I have to post my Valette Mcon note after all?

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I had a swimming coach....

As he was not a language coach, you have said enough.

Ralph Emerson

"Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you, he really is an idiot." -- Groucho Marx

 

[Steve Edmunds]

First encountered in Mad magazine, circa 1959. In fact, ONLY encounter. Rhymed with...something?

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Thor:
But the beauty of references is that they can be taken in innumerable directions, no? I, for example, was shamelessly pandering to a different geek crowd. Hey, we all have our memes...

And you're crawling under a rock after that outrageous chardonnay-related provocation? Will I have to post my Valette Mcon note after all?

Hey! Waitaminnit, that was MY fuckin' Valette note, you interloper. Gitcher own anti-winegeek wine to foist off on the masses.

Mark Lipton
(Still smarting and pissed off about two corked 20+ year old wines in one dinner)

 

[Sharon Bowman]

originally posted by Thor:
And you're crawling under a rock after that outrageous chardonnay-related provocation? Will I have to post my Valette Mcon note after all?

Sorry, it's hard to see things from under this rock.

Actually, I simply thought that you were saying chardonnay was more suited to drinking than to cooking (unless in the sense of having some Puligny-Montrachet in a glass in one hand while stirring risotto).

What would be your Valette Mcon note? Sounds so ominous!

(P.S. Mark: shh, but Valette is winegeek wine.)

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

As he was not a language coach, you have said enough.

"Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you, he really is an idiot." -- Groucho Marx

Everyone needs a hobbyhorse.

I'm tempted here to quote fellow board member VLM. Instead, I will turn the other cheek, Jeff, bearing as a cross the heavy weight of your opprobrium. If you plan to be in the Washington area for a couple of days any time soon, let me know in advance. I'll offer you 10 minutes of un-rebutted abuse against me on a language arts topic of your choice. Afterward, you may pick a bottle (or two) from my 'cellar' (loosely defined) to drink with me and my family over dinner.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Thor:
[
Well, so do we all, but here in lack-of-orderland we have to take our pogroms where we find them: the rampant misuse of "varietal" and "double-blind," knuckling under to calling Musigny "Moose," correlations of purple with latitude, Brad Kane, how many consecutive marks of punctuation constitute an illegal emoticon, how many INAO regulations are being broken at Lafarge, melon de bourgogne auslese as a marketing opportunity, and whether or not chardonnay is any good as a cooking wine.

This reminds me, I've been meaning to ask, when are we going to see Marc Olivier bring SGN Muscadet into the market?

 

[Thor]

Hey! Waitaminnit, that was MY fuckin' Valette note

Au contraire, I have a new one acquired at Terroir in San Francisco. And it's mine, all mine.

I simply thought that you were saying chardonnay was more suited to drinking than to cooking

More the reverse, but even then I was questioning the utility. There, doesn't that help with the dander-elevation? (this is where the emoticon would go)

What would be your Valette Mcon note?

Unfortunately, I'll probably get to it on my usual schedule. (and here would be the next one, but a frownier one)

 

[Don Rice]

originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:

Have you heard Kenny G's version of "Giant Steps"?

In his dreams, perhaps! But if real, you must hip me to it.

There is a fine, quasi-outside version of Giant Steps played by the OTHER Kenny G [Garrett] which is worth a listen.