Chicago is...

originally posted by Florida Jim:
"Elusive, but deliciously so. Fades away in isolation, tasting of null space and absence, then returning with thousands of atom-thin layers of something I can only describe as succulent dryness. There are hints and rumors of fruit and nut, but they never rise to anything identifiable. The entire taste of this wine is its structureexcept, not really. Its hard to explain, obviously."

Something wonderful!
(the note, that is)
Best, Jim
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Sounds indescribable.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
"Elusive, but deliciously so. Fades away in isolation, tasting of null space and absence, then returning with thousands of atom-thin layers of something I can only describe as succulent dryness. There are hints and rumors of fruit and nut, but they never rise to anything identifiable. The entire taste of this wine is its structureexcept, not really. Its hard to explain, obviously."

Something wonderful!
(the note, that is)
Best, Jim
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Sounds indescribable.
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Ah, Ian.
Thanks for reading.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Thor:
You mean the part where the sommelier was upset with me, the part where I was upset with the sommelier, the part where I was telling the sommelier I didn't like the wine he'd just poured, or the part where I was attracted to the sommelier?
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I'll take 2 tickets to any of these 4 shows.
 
Chicago's specialty - great food paired with wine you'd rather not be drinking.
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Is it really known for that? Did I just select (mostly) the right places? Because other than some of the issues with the Bayless list (as iterated), which still had plenty I'd like to drink, I guess I felt lucky. Prices weren't low, anywhere, but I'm used to that in Boston.

Jim, thanks. Rahsaan Ian, thanks.

Let's just say it all sounded like you were there, too.
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It was always Coad's insistence that, despite his reading public's disbelief at the unlikely characters that populated his novellas, there's no way he could make anything up that was quite so interesting. I could probably write a Coadish piece just on the night at Topolobampo, but I think I'd have to change some names to get away with it.

Anyway, putting me -- and thus, hopefully, a reader or two -- there was the intent, so thanks much.

I'll take 2 tickets to any of these 4 shows.
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But only the last one is a comedy.

Go see Gatz instead.
 
Do you have an opinion on what the problem is? Public indifference, uninspired wine directors (or no wine directors at all), distributor-written lists, or something else?
 
originally posted by fillay:
originally posted by kirk wallace:


Chicago's specialty - great food paired with wine you'd rather not be drinking.

What was the corkage? I have a locker at East Bank around the corner - I can stop in before my 4:30 reservation...
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I called ahead to let them know i would be "carrying" and they were fine and they had actually made a note of it, so the server was already aware when we were seated. I think it was $20 or $25/bottle. (The wines I brought were not fancy -- '07 JJ Prum WS Spat and '07 Huet Le Mont Demi-Sec -- but they were far more pleasant that anything I noticed on their list.)
 
originally posted by Thor:
Do you have an opinion on what the problem is? Public indifference, uninspired wine directors (or no wine directors at all), distributor-written lists, or something else?
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I've had a few discussions about it and for the most part you hit it on the head with the double-whammy: generally no wine director coupled with heavy distributor participation. I'd like to think that it's not so much public indifference, but I believe that may be part of it as well. For example, I just went to dinner at a very busy and popular restaurant last Friday night and ended up getting a beer (which I'm totally cool with, though I was hoping for some wine) because the wine list was completely uninspired and meh. The next day I went to my buddy's wine shop and told him where I had gone and the first thing he asked was if the wine list still sucked. Pretty telling. It's much easier to find a good and interesting and well selected beer list here than a similarly thought out wine list.
 
I did see a number of pretty interesting beer lists, yes. Not all as good as The Publican's, of course, but good.
 
originally posted by lars makie:
originally posted by Thor:
Do you have an opinion on what the problem is? Public indifference, uninspired wine directors (or no wine directors at all), distributor-written lists, or something else?
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I've had a few discussions about it and for the most part you hit it on the head with the double-whammy: generally no wine director coupled with heavy distributor participation. I'd like to think that it's not so much public indifference, but I believe that may be part of it as well. For example, I just went to dinner at a very busy and popular restaurant last Friday night and ended up getting a beer (which I'm totally cool with, though I was hoping for some wine) because the wine list was completely uninspired and meh. The next day I went to my buddy's wine shop and told him where I had gone and the first thing he asked was if the wine list still sucked. Pretty telling. It's much easier to find a good and interesting and well selected beer list here than a similarly thought out wine list.
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Lars,
I seem to recall some discussion on this very bored about how Chicago's wine distribution system in FUBAR to Hell and back again. I don't think that I ever got the details, but the impression I got was that normal distribution channels are very limited in their offerings. Perhaps this explains why two of the more interesting Chicago retailers (HDH and Flickinger) are so rich in grey-market offerings (caveat emptor).

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Lars,
I seem to recall some discussion on this very bored about how Chicago's wine distribution system in FUBAR to Hell and back again. I don't think that I ever got the details, but the impression I got was that normal distribution channels are very limited in their offerings. Perhaps this explains why two of the more interesting Chicago retailers (HDH and Flickinger) are so rich in grey-market offerings (caveat emptor).

Mark Lipton
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I can't say whether or not it is indeed fucked up. I'm not in the wine biz here, but from talking with a few people who are, it does seem very convoluted and complicated. For example, I think Kermit Lynch's book is broken up between four different distributors. Now, I don't know, is this the way it is in other large cities? Maybe? Domaine Select just moved exclusively to a new and different distributor that just started up. If it ain't fubar'd it sure seems confusing.

I think the most frustrating thing to me as a consumer is that the LDM Italian book is almost completely ignored here. I believe Maverick is their main distributor here, but isn't involved with the Italian wines. They're starting to trickle in, but I don't know who my friend is going through to get them... Could be a bit telling, though that Vin Divino just completely got rid of all their remaining stock via a fire sale (helping fuel the 'Summer of Riesling' perhaps?), getting out of distributing altogether.
 
For example, I think Kermit Lynch's book is broken up between four different distributors. Now, I don't know, is this the way it is in other large cities?
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Not here, for sure. Maybe in bigger markets.
 
originally posted by Thor:
Do you have an opinion on what the problem is? Public indifference, uninspired wine directors (or no wine directors at all), distributor-written lists, or something else?
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I'd be tempted to make the indifference argument, but it's a complicated one to pull together at short notice. For every Boka (excellent food, but the owners and the clientele seem quite happy with wine as an appendage to the cocktail list), there is a Lula or a Nightwood - places with incredibly creative and talented teams and a sophisticated (IMHO) audience that nonetheless have hodge-podge winelists.

Things are getting better on the retail side, with small distributors teaming up with smaller retailers and a selective public to move some great wines. I can only hope that more of that spills over to the restaurant scene, and places like Rootstock (small, heavy emphasis on natural wine) and Taxim (great all-Greek list) are encouraging on that front.
 
originally posted by fillay:
originally posted by Thor:
Do you have an opinion on what the problem is? Public indifference, uninspired wine directors (or no wine directors at all), distributor-written lists, or something else?
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I'd be tempted to make the indifference argument, but it's a complicated one to pull together at short notice. For every Boka (excellent food, but the owners and the clientele seem quite happy with wine as an appendage to the cocktail list), there is a Lula or a Nightwood - places with incredibly creative and talented teams and a sophisticated (IMHO) audience that nonetheless have hodge-podge winelists.
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Funny, was just thinking about Nightwood as an example. I seriously wanted to go there one night for dinner (I loved the food before) but I really wanted to have some wine with dinner. After looking at the list online, decided to say fuck it and go to a byo place. Great food, but again a list that would make me order a beer.
 
originally posted by lars makie:
Funny, was just thinking about Nightwood as an example. I seriously wanted to go there one night for dinner (I loved the food before) but I really wanted to have some wine with dinner. After looking at the list online, decided to say fuck it and go to a byo place. Great food, but again a list that would make me order a beer.
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And Nightwood's list is a step up from Lula's (at least they have Thevenet). I could have my last meal on earth at Lula - really - but with the stakes so high I'd probably bring my own bottle.
 
originally posted by fillay:
originally posted by lars makie:
Funny, was just thinking about Nightwood as an example. I seriously wanted to go there one night for dinner (I loved the food before) but I really wanted to have some wine with dinner. After looking at the list online, decided to say fuck it and go to a byo place. Great food, but again a list that would make me order a beer.
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And Nightwood's list is a step up from Lula's (at least they have Thevenet). I could have my last meal on earth at Lula - really - but with the stakes so high I'd probably bring my own bottle.
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No sense leaving the bottle in your cellar that's for sure.
 
originally posted by Thor:
For example, I think Kermit Lynch's book is broken up between four different distributors. Now, I don't know, is this the way it is in other large cities?
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Not here, for sure. Maybe in bigger markets.
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2 in NYC, the division being mostly along French and Italian origins for the wines involved.
 
originally posted by lars makie:
Could be a bit telling, though that Vin Divino just completely got rid of all their remaining stock via a fire sale (helping fuel the 'Summer of Riesling' perhaps?), getting out of distributing altogether.
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I would have liked to have seen that sale list. A lot of interesting wines have passed through that warehouse. I suppose that Winebow's entry into handling their own distribution in Chicago and environs balances the distribution thing out. Seth Allen (formerly Le Grand Frommage at Vin Divino) is now running Emerald which is part of Winebow and though he may seem a little wacky sometimes, he's smart-wacky, and that's good to be in the wine biz (ask Randall Grahm).

-Eden (so if you take "fire sale","fuel" and "Summer of Riesling" from Lars' post and add the fire at Avec, they all and melt into a petrol meme which then puts me in mind of plus a change, plus c'est la mme chose, a phrase that pretty much ties together this entire thread. c'est magnifique, c'est bon, c'est la mode, c'haise longue, cest fini)
 
originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
originally posted by lars makie:
Could be a bit telling, though that Vin Divino just completely got rid of all their remaining stock via a fire sale (helping fuel the 'Summer of Riesling' perhaps?), getting out of distributing altogether.
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I would have liked to have seen that sale list.
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A bunch of things flowed back into NYC (with Vin Divino back labels) and the prices were ridic.

A lot of Barolo and Brunello by the glass in the NY market had origins in that sell off.
 
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