TCA incidence

I realized, after I wrote the above message, that there are some Chinons and Bourgueils that are unquestionably deader than Paul McCartney, but haven't yet been weeded. And aren't easy to get to. Oh, well.
 
There are chinons and bourgueils under SC as well? I thought it was just the occasional saumur.

:)
 
I've yet to get a firm answer from anyone about what exactly reduction smells like. I understand how it operates chemically, but as to how exactly it manifests itself on the nose and palate, I'm a little unclear.

Some people have just described it as "squeaky-cleanness". Others have described it as band-aids, or just a general surgical cleanness, like new rubber gloves...

I've tasted wines that others have described as reductive, and I get it, I just like to hear what are some descriptors you all use as indicators of reduction.
 
I've also noticed a lower incidence of turbulence on airplanes over the last couple of years. I wonder if it's related.

Morgan, for me it's burnt rubber. I'd never call it squeaky cleanness.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I've also noticed a lower incidence of turbulence on airplanes over the last couple of years. I wonder if it's related.
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You should have been on our flight from Buenos Aires to Trelew. I still have bruises from being tossed around in my seat from quite extreme turbulence.

I did have to turn back a corked bottle in Argentina while we were there. This year's rate is still hovering at about 6%, despite some recent good runs.
 
originally posted by maureen:
had - er, opened and dumped to be more accurate - a corked 1999 truchot clos de la roche last week.
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talk about feeling nauseated; that must have felt like being kicked in the stomach.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
I've also noticed a lower incidence of turbulence on airplanes over the last couple of years. I wonder if it's related.
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You should have been on our flight from Buenos Aires to Trelew. I still have bruises from being tossed around in my seat from quite extreme turbulence.
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Ouch, sorry to hear that. I'm scared to death of turbulence, and fly so often that I'm sure I'll run into a vacuum, my greatest fear, one of these days.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Ouch, sorry to hear that. I'm scared to death of turbulence, and fly so often that I'm sure I'll run into a vacuum, my greatest fear, one of these days.
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Yes, all natural wine lovers feel that way.

I'll agree that, anecdotally, I've seen fewer young corked wines. The Clos Roche Blanche was the first one in quite a while.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Ouch, sorry to hear that. I'm scared to death of turbulence, and fly so often that I'm sure I'll run into a vacuum, my greatest fear, one of these days.
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Maxwell's Demon!
 
So I went back through my non-exaustive notes, and realised that the corked wines I've had this year were pre-2000.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

Ouch, sorry to hear that. I'm scared to death of turbulence, and fly so often that I'm sure I'll run into a vacuum, my greatest fear, one of these days.
Click to expand...

Yes, all natural wine lovers feel that way.
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Would it help if I switched to industrial?
 
originally posted by Yixin:
So I went back through my non-exaustive notes, and realised that the corked wines I've had this year were pre-2000.
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That would be in line, at least directionally, with the test results by Scott Laboratories for the US Cork Quality Council which showed that TCA, measured using Solid Phase MicroExtraction [SPME] and Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry [GC-MS], in the cork bales intended for production went from a mean of 4 parts per trillion to 0.8 ppt [2001-2008 IIRC] - an 80% reduction.

There are those that will claim to be able to detect TCA below that lower level [even when that distinctive smell is absent ] simply on the basis the wine isn't what it should be e.g. fruit attenuation et al. Of course the fact there are other chemicals that can have the same sort of effect may be considered irrelevant.

Major wine competitions like the International Wine Challenge provide a similar direction with cork taint determined by a special panel at 6% in 2001, 4.9% in 2003, 3.3% in 2007 and 3% in 2008. Bear in mind too that these competitions included earlier vintages than the competition year so some divergence between the two disparate data sources [the first was US only] would be expected.

Considering the changes in cork production methods and facilities, quality management systems and testing it would be very bad luck indeed, even for the most sensitive, if some reduction in corked wines from vintages of this decade had not been experienced.

Wines from earlier decades will regrettably also be a matter of luck and sensitivity but will obviously not have benefited from the later major improvements which followed the long period when the cork industrys complacency kick-started [DIAM, Glass et al] or gave new life [Screwcap] to major alternative closures.
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:
NOOOOOOO!
originally posted by maureen:
had - er, opened and dumped to be more accurate - a corked 1999 truchot clos de la roche last week.
Click to expand...
talk about feeling nauseated; that must have felt like being kicked in the stomach.
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well, at least it wasn't from my cellar so let's hope my remaining 99 CdR bottles are ok.

I've always thought of reduction as smelling a bit like rotten eggs. Not quite that intense but in that realm.
 
originally posted by maureen:
had - er, opened and dumped to be more accurate - a corked 1999 truchot clos de la roche last week.
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It was truly sad. That is one of my all-time favorite wines. At least your 99 Bachelet Charmes was not corked.

By the way, I drank the Truchot anyway - didn't taste bad, just not anywhere as good as usual. Just could not bear to dump that wine.
 
originally posted by Morgan Harris:
Sythetics, reduction...I've yet to get a firm answer from anyone about what exactly reduction smells like. I understand how it operates chemically, but as to how exactly it manifests itself on the nose and palate, I'm a little unclear.

Some people have just described it as "squeaky-cleanness". Others have described it as band-aids, or just a general surgical cleanness, like new rubber gloves...

I've tasted wines that others have described as reductive, and I get it, I just like to hear what are some descriptors you all use as indicators of reduction.
Click to expand...
Reduction in wine is often used as a shorthand for sulphur like odours [sometimes SLO or VSC volatile sulphur compounds] which include H2S [just like rotten eggs which will usually blow off] and certain mercaptans/thiols and disulphides which can be pretty smelly from cabbage-like through rubbery to sewage which may be more persistent depending on which mercaptans and disulphides are involved and their concentrations.

SO2 is a sulphur compound, has a central role in reduction and has its own distinctive smell [burnt match] but is not a sulphide and is not considered one of the SLO/VSCs.

The references to cleanness squeaky or otherwise are puzzling in the context of generally off smells although not all mercaptans/thiols and disulphides smell off and, depending on specific compounds and concentration levels, some are important positive contributors to the aroma and taste of wine.

Band-aid is usually a description of one of the volatile phenols [brett] produced by the wild yeast Brettanomyces.bruxellensis although low-level brett and reduction have been know to be confused sometimes even with low level TCA.
 
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