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2010 the Year when wine left the beverage world to become...
- Thread starter Brézème
- Start date
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
But Thor who are these people?
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
For a retort to my sarcasm when did you learn to present such a concise and pithy phrase. I expected a much longer answer.originally posted by Thor:
Is your VCR still blinking 12:00, Lou?
Levi, pinot gris, but damn, it was interesting! But all of Domaine Lucci's I thought were very well made. (didn't love the ros) The chard was pretty groovy too. But mostly I do indeed remember thinking if I had to drink these through dinner, this would not be a hardship which---I think---is kind of huge praise one would usually have to hog tie me and force Aussie wine on me, but these were definitely wines worth drinking. Some better than others, but I thought all had merit.--Harold
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Of course, I am not a winemaker.
Me neither Levi, me neither.
Most of my work is in the vineyards, and travelling selling my wines. By far.
Call me a merchant then. Or a vigneron. Or a merchant-vigneron
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Of course, I am not a winemaker.
Me neither Levi, me neither.
Those people are.
Most of my work is in the vineyards. By far.
I may not agree with you much these days, but I absolutely think that you express a very acute point of view, and you express it in ways that make me think and which I appreciate.
I do think that some of that which you call out as BS posturing is actually just young people (Tom is 29) exploring and looking around a bit for what is important to them.
I also think it might be that it is easy to begrudge other people their moment in the spotlight. But I personally think that if such a thing were in fact happening, that it would be petty.
In the end we all get to vote with our purchases.
I know that you are one of the Greats in all of France, and that your acuity and depth of commitment is unrivalled. I think it would be possible to let these other people breathe a bit.
And I think, however wrong I may be, that usually winemakers aren't the most wonderful at providing context for other folks' wines. That is what the writers and importers and wannabes (like myself) are good at.
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
God, I love when you talk dirty!originally posted by Thor:
Read it twenty times, assuming randomly-placed semicolons and parentheses. That should be an adequate substitute.
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
And I think, however wrong I may be, that usually winemakers aren't the most wonderful at providing context for other folks' wines. That is what the writers and importers and wannabes (like myself) are good at.
But Levi, did I said a word about the wines?
Believe me or not, I 100% trust you about the quality of these wines.(You were the guy who introduce me to COS, and this means something, no?)
And I will definitely taste them as soon as I see them.
My concern is the use of naturalness
Natural Selection Theory. Live Natural Wine
or
9 eggs made to natures own specifications
though the whole process and artistic intentions are a thousand times more important to the whole thing, than the way the raw material was produced.
The aesthetic aspect is very, very interesting and inovative. But natural?
Talking about carbon footprint...
If natural now means "different" or "new" or "revolutionary" or "creative", then these wines are, and I don't need to taste them or know how and where the raw material was grown.
If natural is in the acceptance of Chauvet's words then let's go back to what he said to winemakers and vignerons through Andras Keller (Vinum Magazine) in 1985:
"Chacun doit accepter ses vins comme ils sont en ralit, et non comme il se les imagine*"
then the importance of the process and intention is soooo huge for the personality of these wines that I hardly can think of them as natural in this acceptance.
*This is my favorite definition of naturalness for wine.
A translation could be : one has to accept her/his wines as they are, not as she/he thinks they should be.
Feel free to correct this, of course.
Eric
Jim Hanlon
Jim Hanlon
Peyra has reached Australia? Long trip, but bound to happen sooner or later. Note that my invocation of Peyra is not a qualitative judgment of the wines, which I have not tasted. Rather, it is a reaction to the manner in which the wines are being presented and and the resulting hype.
Having spent some time yesterday morning with Manu Houillon, this all seems like a bit much.
Having spent some time yesterday morning with Manu Houillon, this all seems like a bit much.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
I used to talk incredible amounts of bullshit about Nietzsche when I was 29.
I was young, I was stupid, and I'm pretty sure I puked on my own shoes at least more than once, but I can't remember.
But, and this is true even at the Old Age of 33, I really liked that Pinot Gris. And I bought some, even. For use in the Australian restaurant I work in.
The rest of the lineup was interesting to taste because it was Australia and who knew such things were a going on there? Really, Australia?
Look, every dude that was once 29 knows that 29 meant acoustic guitar and seemingly soulful. It takes time to develop wry cynicism and a deep sense of sarcasm.
Too clever is the sin of our times. Too clever is all sell and not enough buy. Too clever and not enough real is comin' in the windows and you can barely keep it out. I know that. You know that. But clever doesn't mean that people, in some respect, don't at least try to stand for something. And I am a poor grader, because I give out points for effort.
I was young, I was stupid, and I'm pretty sure I puked on my own shoes at least more than once, but I can't remember.
But, and this is true even at the Old Age of 33, I really liked that Pinot Gris. And I bought some, even. For use in the Australian restaurant I work in.
The rest of the lineup was interesting to taste because it was Australia and who knew such things were a going on there? Really, Australia?
Look, every dude that was once 29 knows that 29 meant acoustic guitar and seemingly soulful. It takes time to develop wry cynicism and a deep sense of sarcasm.
Too clever is the sin of our times. Too clever is all sell and not enough buy. Too clever and not enough real is comin' in the windows and you can barely keep it out. I know that. You know that. But clever doesn't mean that people, in some respect, don't at least try to stand for something. And I am a poor grader, because I give out points for effort.
Jim Hanlon
Jim Hanlon
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
And I am a poor grader, because I give out points for effort.
Yes, but effort toward what?
originally posted by Scott Kraft:
BTW, what's your beef with Harold Rosenberg?
H. Rosenberg was an explorer of the new frontiers of the world of art during the drastic societal chances during the post war times, no?
That is a "coup de chapeau" towards Alice who is obviously digging at the boundaries of the wine world, in these post history days...
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Clement Forever.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
And I am a poor grader, because I give out points for effort.
Yes, but effort toward what?
Well, if I remember 29 correctly, it was towards being on the side that's right.
Not in the Dylan sense of the side that is about to win, but the side that transcends and is true. I am pretty damn sure that is what I was looking for. Absolutes are an everyday at that age. And at mine, if I were to see the situation rightly.
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Clement Forever.
I am not sure who you refer to. My lack of american culture or of humour, maybe?
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Brzme:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Clement Forever.
I am not sure who you refer to. My lack of american culture or of humour, maybe?
Clement Greenberg, the other figure, with Harold Rosenberg, who made the critical case for and was central to the understanding of, mid 20th century abstract art.
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Well, if I remember 29 correctly, it was towards being on the side that's right.
Not in the Dylan sense of the side that is about to win, but the side that transcends and is true. I am pretty damn sure that is what I was looking for. Absolutes are an everyday at that age. And at mine, if I were to see the situation rightly.
Sounds more like 19 than 29. But I'm only 34 so what do I know.
Either way, I get your point and who knows what these folks may do with wine in the future.
Joel Stewart
Joel Stewart
At least Alice has mentioned it a couple of times....her surprise that something like this would come from down under. What if these were wines from next door to Scholium, or Cornelissen? Would they merit the same attention? Just asking...
And on the other hand, it doesn't sound like Chauvet's words are at odds with throwing grapes in a container and letting them ferment into wine either. That that ends up being pleasurable to drink is amazing....but I too am no winemaker...and I've enjoyed more than a few Contadinos...as well as Lapierres. For me, the proof is partially in the winemaking, mostly in the glass.
And on the other hand, it doesn't sound like Chauvet's words are at odds with throwing grapes in a container and letting them ferment into wine either. That that ends up being pleasurable to drink is amazing....but I too am no winemaker...and I've enjoyed more than a few Contadinos...as well as Lapierres. For me, the proof is partially in the winemaking, mostly in the glass.