Wood in St. Joseph

S

SFJoe

Joe Dougherty
Not to raise a sore subject, but I had a couple of St. Josephs last night and wanted to see what people thought.

The Dard & Ribo 2006 St. Joe was a splendid example of what hipster winemaking is good at. Swillerific aromatics, a little spritz (I'm sure from retained CO2, there being no funky refermentation aromas), light body, cloudy. Certainly very little or no SO2, but clean and pretty.

A glass afterwards of 2006 Pierre Gonon is much more restrained, much more classic, it's good wine but less flamboyant. It's a little hard to taste, it's such a jump.

But as part of the jump there is a little textural creaminess and a little vanilla on the nose that make me wonder whether a few new barrels have crept into the cellar at Gonon? Anyone know? It's not offensive, not even really prominent, but I wonder.
 
I think there is some new wood on the white but not on the red. People frequently mistake classic elements of Syrah for new wood. Additionally, the Gonon will work with stems if the vintage permits, which some people also confuse with wood.
 
st joe is just a little north of the primary missouri winegrowing regions, so it's an easy mistake to make.

Chris, did you know that at one time Missouri had more bonded wineries than any other state in the union?
 
I confess, I've frequently made the common error of not giving Missouri the credit it deserves in the winemaking history of our nation.

My real-world ignorance about the states between the coasts knows no bounds, although I can tell you a lot about the Kansas-Missouri Act.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Wood in St. JosephNot to raise a sore subject
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Of course you wouldn't do such a thing. Thanks for the memories.

And Claude, thanks for the suggestions, back then. My views have evolved.
 
A 2006 Francois Villard Mairlant (the red version) I tried recently was surprisingly good. I never had anything from Villard before, but had heard that he used a lot of new oak. Whatever he did in 2006 with this cuvee seemed to work. The wine had great depth and concentration, and was not overwhelmed by the new oak. It had enough acidity to be food friendly, despite the ripeness. The wine was clean, and primary fruit seemed to be the main feature, but it also had some pepper and olive and other nuances that made it more than just a polished ripe syrah. Maybe it was old vines or the granite soil, or maybe he has cut back on the percentage of new barrels.

Sharon,
Thanks for linking that old thread. There is a lot of good info in there.
 
originally posted by VLM:
Awww, she's all grown up.
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Amazing how one can go from awkward, oak-loving adolescent to disdainful biodynamic hipster in the space of six months, huh?

originally posted by Marc D:
Sharon,
Thanks for linking that old thread. There is a lot of good info in there.
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Thank SFJoe.
 
SFJoe,

I almost hate to bring this up, but does the style of the wine made by Dard and Ribo that you tried last night allow the wine to show any terroir?

A wine maker I spoke to recently thought that these "hipster" wines could be very good, but complained that they all tasted similar and that the style obscures any sense of place. When I asked him what he meant by hipster wine, he mentioned zero sulfur and semi carbonic fermentation.

I don't want to rehash the whole hipster debate, but am curious to hear your point of view regarding this specific wine.
 
I had a 2006 Domaine du Tunnel St. Joseph the other day that was very nice, no new oak. It was well balanced and had a good amount of iron and spiciness to go with its obvious fruit (not froot).
 
originally posted by Marc D:
SFJoe,

I almost hate to bring this up, but does the style of the wine made by Dard and Ribo that you tried last night allow the wine to show any terroir?
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An evergreen question, Marc.

St. Joe to me is often a softer, fruitier wine than some of the neighbors. So it's a little hard to say that a softer, aromatic version of it is anti-terroir. Also, there is plenty of indifferent St. Joe around, diluting the sense of what's typique.

So I'm not sure I can say. If this wine had been Cornas, I'd have said no way, but as St. Joe it flies. Clearly a strong hipster overlay, but so tasty I won't complain.
 
reading about dard et ribo in john livingstone-learmouth's book i get the idea that their stuff is more like hippie wine than hipster wine.
 
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