a sensitive topic

originally posted by Yixin:
I thought both Saar and Ruwer guys made good wine in '03. The Rheinhold Haart wines have settled down, too. Had a good, and I think representative, line up of SUH the other day; clean, sometimes flat, but tasting slimmer and fresher than at release. The wines I would stay away from are those towards the dry end of the spectrum, where the flatness becomes problematic and in some cases, where the alcohol (e.g. Clemens Busch) is intrusive.

The 'flaws' of the vintage, if one chooses to view them as such, are more apparent alongside its siblings, particularly '04. But to do so is to leave unnecessary gaps at the table, in my view.
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I like the way you put that. Makes total sense to me. (and the wines that tend to the too fat or flabby, e.g. Strub, were even more so in '03, but that probably doesn't affect too many people on here.)
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Not at all my favorite vintage for reds in the Loire, though there were fine exceptions.
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That prove the rule. Soil depth was the key for those who made very good wines, just like 1997.

I've been really surprised to prefer some 1997s and 2003s to their 1996 and 2002 counterparts. FWIW, I think 2002 is the finest vintage for Loire reds (generally) of my wine buying life.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Not at all my favorite vintage for reds in the Loire, though there were fine exceptions.
Click to expand...

That prove the rule. Soil depth was the key for those who made very good wines, just like 1997.

I've been really surprised to prefer some 1997s and 2003s to their 1996 and 2002 counterparts. FWIW, I think 2002 is the finest vintage for Loire reds (generally) of my wine buying life.
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Also some places got just a bit of rain in mid-late July, which helped an awful lot. Others did not.

I hear all the buzz is about 2010.
 
originally posted by VLM:
FWIW, I think 2002 is the finest vintage for Loire reds (generally) of my wine buying life.
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one hears so much of this "finest vintage" talk (from my chubby lips, even), but i wonder more and more what it means.

heat, normally. or warmth at least, and nice even ripening. but, one can always get that by planting elsewhere.

so while it's true that these "finest vintages" generate plenty of stuff that will in time turn into old shit with that generic old great red wine smell, i wonder sometimes if we don't end up losing the whole point of why it is that wine grapes are best grown at their marginal ripening points in the process.

a case in point: i have gotten such a ridiculous amount of joy from the 01 rougeard clos over the past couple of years that i suspect it has been my favorite wine in that time -- in fact i've gotten more pleasure from it than i've ever gotten from a "finer" vintage of rougeard. i could say the same for a host of "lesser" vintage burgundies viz their more celebrated cousins. (anyone nodding along at this point may well share my bemusement with what the hell i mean by "finer" or "lesser" in this context.)

not an argument, more a public scratching of my fat head.

fb.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Not at all my favorite vintage for reds in the Loire, though there were fine exceptions.
Click to expand...

That prove the rule. Soil depth was the key for those who made very good wines, just like 1997.

I've been really surprised to prefer some 1997s and 2003s to their 1996 and 2002 counterparts. FWIW, I think 2002 is the finest vintage for Loire reds (generally) of my wine buying life.
Click to expand...

Also some places got just a bit of rain in mid-late July, which helped an awful lot. Others did not.

I hear all the buzz is about 2010.
Click to expand...

Last year wasn't it all about 2009? Hm.
 
I confess, I've not had many 03 german wines - or from elsewhere in europe, I guess. But Prum's ws auction spatlese was really quite excellent when I had it a couple of years ago.
 
Monkey dude, aren't 02s from Breton kinda funky not in the best sense, despite their other admirable qualities?
 
originally posted by fatboy:
originally posted by VLM:
FWIW, I think 2002 is the finest vintage for Loire reds (generally) of my wine buying life.
Click to expand...

one hears so much of this "finest vintage" talk (from my chubby lips, even), but i wonder more and more what it means.

heat, normally. or warmth at least, and nice even ripening. but, one can always get that by planting elsewhere.

so while it's true that these "finest vintages" generate plenty of stuff that will in time turn into old shit with that generic old great red wine smell, i wonder sometimes if we don't end up losing the whole point of why it is that wine grapes are best grown at their marginal ripening points in the process.

a case in point: i have gotten such a ridiculous amount of joy from the 01 rougeard clos over the past couple of years that i suspect it has been my favorite wine in that time -- in fact i've gotten more pleasure from it than i've ever gotten from a "finer" vintage of rougeard. i could say the same for a host of "lesser" vintage burgundies viz their more celebrated cousins. (anyone nodding along at this point may well share my bemusement with what the hell i mean by "finer" or "lesser" in this context.)

not an argument, more a public scratching of my fat head.

fb.
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Particular wines can be better or worse. Vintage generalizations are a level of description that may or may not be useful to you. But you know all this, of course.

All other things being equal, 2002 has been the finest vintage of my wine buying life for red Loire wines, particular wines notwithstanding. The reason 2002 was so good (for whites as well, maybe even finer) was the long, cool growing season with ample water and sunlight. Thus, grapes were allowed to ripen at a stately pace without sugar spikes or runs on pH and acidity. I find that the wines show a broader spectrum of flavor than most other vintages.
 
originally posted by VLM: 2002 has been the finest vintage of my wine buying life for red Loire wines...I find that the wines show a broader spectrum of flavor than most other vintages.
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The structure/texture is what makes me love the vintage. Firm, generous, all in proportion, and what a marriage of ripeness and liveliness compared to what came afterward.
 
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