Vajra load

originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Lurkers have reprimanded me for my cheap shot against a noble white grape, so I withdraw the remark.

But bojo and etc. are unworthy of this board.
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Lurkers don't bother to post, but use the PM function?
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It's that Asimov guy again, isn't it?
 
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Lurkers have reprimanded me for my cheap shot against a noble white grape, so I withdraw the remark.

But bojo and etc. are unworthy of this board.
Click to expand...
Lurkers don't bother to post, but use the PM function?
Click to expand...
I wish Chris were here to explain the joke, but lurkers have further objected to your remarks.

Maybe Steve could help you out.
 
lurkers keep complaining to me about all the lurking going on in this thread.

i have directed them to your drouhin morgon post to even things out.

fb.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Lurkers have reprimanded me for my cheap shot against a noble white grape, so I withdraw the remark.

But bojo and etc. are unworthy of this board.
Click to expand...
Lurkers don't bother to post, but use the PM function?
Click to expand...
I wish Chris were here to explain the joke, but lurkers have further objected to your remarks.

Maybe Steve could help you out.
Click to expand...

And think of the newbies, wouldja!

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Well, AFAIK no wine integrates new oak without bottle aging.
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Before the visit to Luis Pato, I had seen this intriguing picture on his site:
Pe_Franco_v_Pe_Enxertado-1.jpg
The cluster on the left is from grafted Baga vines, the cluster on the right is from ungrafted.

During the visit, Pato said that he doesnt want the taste of oak in his wines, but wants to maximize the natural micro-oxigenation benefits that new oak has on the grape tannins (he is an engineer and an enologist, and said with conviction that new wood and grape tannins polymerize together into something "softer" than the sum of the parts).

He also said that, with his ungrafted Baga, he can always use 100% new wood because the berries are smaller and the skin to juice ratio so high that the must can absorb the new oak flavor in barrel (not bottle). For the sake of comparison, he said that Touriga Nacional, generally considered a tannic grape, is less "structured" than Baga, and cannot "handle" 100% new oak without acquiring its flavors, even in the most powerful vintages. So, every year, with every variety, both for blends and varietals, Pato has to decide what is the maximum % of new oak that he can use to get the benefits without the taste.

Looking back, I think I conflated the above two inputs to mean that the more tannic a grape must is, the more it will absorb the flavor of new wood. I imagine that's simplistic, and that phenolics play a bigger, or perhaps the only, role in absorbing wood flavor. You and Joe have a better handle on this, so my question is: do tannins play a role in the absorption of oak flavor (by binding with oak flavor molecules) or is that the prerogative of phenolics?
 
Oswaldo,

A picture is worht a thousand quesitons, but here's one: what's the age of the grafted versus ungrafted vines (a potentially critical point)? Are the ungrafted ancient vines that have survived the ravages of time or young vines that are likely to quickly die out when the phylloxera beasties get to them?
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Oswaldo,

A picture is worht a thousand quesitons, but here's one: what's the age of the grafted versus ungrafted vines (a potentially critical point)? Are the ungrafted ancient vines that have survived the ravages of time or young vines that are likely to quickly die out when the phylloxera beasties get to them?
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I asked him during the visit if the picture showed the product of vines of similar ages and he said that both were approximately twelve years old.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Oswaldo,

A picture is worht a thousand quesitons, but here's one: what's the age of the grafted versus ungrafted vines (a potentially critical point)? Are the ungrafted ancient vines that have survived the ravages of time or young vines that are likely to quickly die out when the phylloxera beasties get to them?
Click to expand...

I asked him during the visit if the picture showed the product of vines of similar ages and he said that both were approximately twelve years old.
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Thus leading to question #2 (and a follow-up) - are the ungrafted vines on their last legs (which would explain a lot), or is this an area that is luckily inhospitable to the root-munching louse? And if the latter, why are any vines planted on grafted stock?
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Oswaldo,

A picture is worht a thousand quesitons, but here's one: what's the age of the grafted versus ungrafted vines (a potentially critical point)? Are the ungrafted ancient vines that have survived the ravages of time or young vines that are likely to quickly die out when the phylloxera beasties get to them?
Click to expand...

I asked him during the visit if the picture showed the product of vines of similar ages and he said that both were approximately twelve years old.
Click to expand...

Thus leading to question #2 (and a follow-up) - are the ungrafted vines on their last legs (which would explain a lot), or is this an area that is luckily inhospitable to the root-munching louse? And if the latter, why are any vines planted on grafted stock?
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As far as I know, the ungrafted vine from which that cluster came is healthy. He has a patch of land with a sandy top layer where he plants all the ungrafted Baga vines that produce the grapes that go into his top bottling, the Quinta do Ribeirinho P Franco. The rest of his soil is "normal," i.e., without the sand layer, so all his other vines have to be grafted.

He did, however, make an intriguing comment about how, other things equal, his soils with sand produce less interesting wines than his soils without sand, so there is a trade-off involved in using ungrafted vines. You gain some because the vines are ungrafted, but you lose some because the soil imparts less interest.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I was seriously traumatized just now by this "Chevy" nomenclature.
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If we are routing out Bojo, Chevy and the like, can I ask for a ruling on CdP, especially as it is used for both Cotes* de Py and Chateauneuf de Pape?

*Edited to fix the typo.
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:

If we are routing out Bojo, Chevy and the like, can I ask for a ruling on CdP, especially as it is used for both Cote de Py and Chateauneuf de Pape?
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Easy resolution to the ambiguity: C9.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
The others are Americanizations, which is a whole other way of operating.
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Really? I've been seeing Bojo in French wine publications for years and until recently, never realized that it was in usage here. Goes with resto and St-Jo.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
The others are Americanizations, which is a whole other way of operating.
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Really? I've been seeing Bojo in French wine publications for years and until recently, never realized that it was in usage here. Goes with resto and St-Jo.
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Ok. I defer to your knowledge on that one.

But it will be a lot more difficult to convince me that 'Charlie' and 'Moose' are not American/Anglo Abominations.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
The others are Americanizations, which is a whole other way of operating.
Click to expand...
Really? I've been seeing Bojo in French wine publications for years and until recently, never realized that it was in usage here. Goes with resto and St-Jo.
Click to expand...

Ok. I defer to your knowledge on that one.

But it will be a lot more difficult to convince me that 'Charlie' and 'Moose' are not American Abominations.
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Well, Monty does sound distinctly British to my ear.
 
Yes, I edited above in light of Cole's comments.

And of course all societies do this. The French have 'Mc Do'.

But that doesn't mean I have to like it!

Especially with the undercurrent of 'I don't speak French and why should I even bother to pronounce it correctly because I can throw out this Anglicized nickname that debunks the haughty French wine mystique.'

Over-analyze much?
 
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