Malbecs appreciated? Or not?

Peter Creasey

Peter Creasey
In some parts of the U.S., many consumers, perhaps especially restaurant patrons, have fairly recently begun more than before to appreciate the quality/price rapport of Malbec wines.

To the extent that one can generalize, do you like Malbec wines from Argentina? Buy them? Avoid them? Indifferent? Have any general opinions about them? Fine? Gross? Etc.?

If you don't have a personal opinion, what do you feel is the general consensus of wine knowledgeable people?

. . . . . Pete
 
I don't know about recently. I think Argentine Malbecs have been a huge fad for at least the past five years...at least among the mid-20s to early-30s DC and NY bureaucrats, grad students, and attorneys that I know. I haven't been to a dinner party in a long time which doesn't have the requisite bottle of Malbec bought from Trader Joes or Whole Foods.

I think a large part of the appeal is that they are fairly inexpensive ($10-$15) yet not too cheap (a la buying the second cheapest wine on the list), are not Australian Yellow Tail-like confections, but are still fruit-forward, alcoholic, and plush, and very easy to find.

In my personal experience, I have had some Argentine Malbecs that have been decent, but the majority tend to be overripe and fall apart in the glass quickly. Granted, I haven't tried the pricier stuff like Catena...just the wines I have had at parties, which tend to be the entry-level cuvees.
 
I'm not a fan of 'malbec', but then I'm not a fan of 'pinot noir' either.

I don't really follow the scene that digs these wines, but I did have an interesting experience last month in a French restaurant in small university town Massachusetts.

The restaurant is pretty good, owned and operated by French folks (mostly), and they lay on the 'French' aspect fairly heavily, much to the delight of the locals. So I was shocked and horrified to see the Clos la Coutale on the menu listed as 'Malbec'. I was even more shocked and horrified when I ordered the Cahors and the server said 'Oh, you mean the Malbec.'

My dining companions are not really into European wine. So I suppose they could be forgiven. But they didn't follow my explanation of how Malbec is one of the grapes in Cahors and how Cahors is the home of the grape. One of them didn't even realize Malbec was a grape, he thought it was a blend. And one that he often bought. So whatever the marketing machine is doing with Malbec, I guess it's working.
 
We often get requests for Malbec at the restaurant. In terms of people who don't really look at the list but just order something, Malbec is second only to Pinot Grigio at the moment. This has been a trend that I have witnessed for the last 3 years, maybe 4.

That being said, we don't have a Malbec listing. We do have a Cahors, though. It is a fairly decent one, but its sales trajectory could be accurately represented with a flat line. So I think I could understand why someone might list Clos la Coutale as a Malbec.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton: We do have a Cahors, though. It is a fairly decent one, but its sales trajectory could be accurately represented with a flat line. So I think I could understand why someone might list Clos la Coutale as a Malbec.

Fair enough. I guess I shouldn't be too uptight.

For what it's worth I don't get offended if lists refer to Burgundy as 'pinot noir' or 'chardonnay'. But somehow the fact that Coutale has a decent percentage of merlot made me resent it being called malbec. I know it could probably be labeled malbec under US labeling laws, but still. It just seemed wrong.

Oh well, I enjoyed the wine anyway. And I know wine lists are not about education but rather sales.
 
I used to really enjoy Cahors, found them reminiscent of a Bordeaux cru bourgeois style of wine. These days you do have to work hard to avoid the "prestige cuvees" but I imagine the traditional type are still out there. I'll have to pick one up soon and see if it still works for me. As for Argentinian malbec, I've never tasted one even slightly tolerable, and it's not because of the usual reasons (too ripe/too oaked). That would have just made them boring internationally styled wines but the ones I've had have been way worse than that.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
We often get requests for Malbec at the restaurant. In terms of people who don't really look at the list but just order something, Malbec is second only to Pinot Grigio at the moment. This has been a trend that I have witnessed for the last 3 years, maybe 4.

That being said, we don't have a Malbec listing. We do have a Cahors, though. It is a fairly decent one, but its sales trajectory could be accurately represented with a flat line. So I think I could understand why someone might list Clos la Coutale as a Malbec.
Well we now know what type of sommelier you are.
 
We carry about or 7 or 8 Malbecs from Argentina, that is a helluva lot more than we needed 5 years ago but it seems to have leveled off the last couple of years. We have one Catena which is somewhat higher in price than the others, and it does sell.
 
Clos de Gamot and Chateau du Cayrou (the Jouffreau Cahors domaines) are still excellent. I haven't yet tried their Clos St. Jean. Among the newer producers worth following are Cosse-Maisonneuve, who make very nice wines. Gaudou, more traditional, makes a nice Tradition cuve, and even their oaked Renaissance is quite good. Clos la Coutale is fine as a fruity quaffer. Clos Triguedina's basic cuve is excellent, and the prestige cuve, called Prince Probus, can be terrific with lots of age. Lagrezette, Cdre, Lamartine, etc., you really need to avoid their top cuves for the most part.

Incidentally, the better Cahors in my opinion are not black at all but a dark garnet; the blacker wines tend to be the most extracted, oaky, and tedious, in the international style.
 
I will echo Levi's Malbec sentiment. That, Sancerre, and Pinot (Noir and Grigio) are all people explicitly order these days, in NYC, at least.

We're doing La Coutale BTG for $15. I pitch it as the "O.G. Malbec" and the stuff practically sells itself.

I have particularly fond memories of Chateau du Cedre '05 or '6 that I had a year ago...pretty awesome at 22 dollars a bottle, or whatever it was.

One of Soms from Le Bernadin was recently joking with me about opening one restaurant called "Sancerre" and another called "Malbec" and how he'd make a bazillion dollars. I can't say that I disagree with him...it's just not restaurant I'd want to work in.
 
Wait, wasn't O.G. Malbec on that track "Put it On" with Big L and Kid Capri?

Or was that somebody else?

'cause folks be putting it on and on.
 
I should say, that as someone who visited Argentina in June, the market and philosophy of winemakers there is pretty unique, both in good and bad ways.

I didn't visit Mendoza, but I did go to Salta. The problem is the domestic market's tastes are on lockdown because the import tariffs are huge, so domestically there's not much interest in wine besides, "Is this red or white and full of booze?" The one foreign wine I saw when I was there was a bottle of Dom '00 for about 600 dollars, and it's not because of a bad mark up, but instead the huge protectionist government tariffs.

As far as day-to-day wine is concerned, as long as it's vaguely competently made and relatively cheap, they don't care. Every supermarket, restaurant, and wine shop I saw had the (same) wide collection of domestic product.

For export, the point chasers are definitely firmly in place. Since the domestic Argentine market for wine is almost entirely concerned with price instead of quality and exports are promoted, the wine markers are, for the most part, making wine to please the large American/ critics. This, at least, is what I've found of the wines which come to America

However, of the producers I visited in Cafayete, I did see a fair range of styles and sizes.

There was a guy named Salvador Figueroa who was attempting to make the Harlan of Malbecs. His premier bottling saw two years in new french oak, 15% Alcohol, and was from individually sourced, hand-picket vineyards, all above 1700 meters with tiny yields. His production facilities were very small as well. 1 employee, 10-ish 7 hecoliter tanks, and one 27 hectoliter blending tank. To my knowledge, it's not being exported. The wine's impressive, but of the international cut of cult California Cab.

J.L. Mugnier was a mid-sized producer, with several bottlings that I enjoyed, principally a rose and a Chardonnay-based sparkling wine. Larger production that Salvador, but not a giant, several thousand cases all told, probably. I don't speak spanish, beyond that of the dirty kitchen variety, so I wasn't able to pick up a ton of details. Tasting the wines, there was definitely more of a focus on freshness and a distinct lack of spoofyness.

Other than that, Bodegas Do Esteca/Michel Torino was interesting (though large-scaled). They make some 90-year-old old vine Tannat which is awesome.

The thing to recognize is that while it's hot and high desert, the nights are always very cold because of the altitude and so the acid/phenol/sugar balance is pretty solid. I definitely never confuse these wines for thermonuclear Australia candy explosions.

The general level of wine making is very competent, if not inspired to express something individual, so it's very rare that I taste wines from this area that are crappy. As 8-12 dollar quaffing wine, it rarely fails to deliver. The Torrontes in particular is universally decent to good in quality, since it's all grown at a high altitude and I don't think anyone's oaking them. As cheap, aeromatic, dry, high-acid white, aperetif-style white it's a fantastic blind buy for summer party/picnic.

With Malbec's it's a little trickier, since you really need to know the style of your producer, and they're all over the board. But again, because of a high altitude and general lack of huge operating capital, they don't oak the living shit out of them and don't generally end up with super spoofy, ripe wines. Conversely, they are often sort of soul-less and devoid of terroir.
 
So much great info here; a small personal datum: I tried a fair number of Argentinian Malbecs at various tastings a few years ago, because of the all attention they were getting, and was put off over and over again by a funny, musty kind of flavor deep down in the wine. Perhaps this is a genetic thing for me; should lay hands on some Cahors.

What's the nature of your interest?
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons: What's the nature of your interest?

Ian, If you're asking me (the originator of this thread), my interest is that I have usually liked numerous Malbecs, including over the years the Cahors and more recently the Argentina versions.

I've been happy with what a number of them delivered in the way of flavor and versatility (especially with different foods) at their attractive price point.

On the other hand, I've seen some people absolutely turn up their noses at Malbecs and refer to them with pejorative terms e.g. gross. Given my own general liking of various Cahors and Argentine Malbecs, I can't understand the general put down by some people.

Thus, I was interested in hearing personal opinions here or, otherwise, what wine knowledgeable folks in general think of Malbecs.

And, yes, I agree with you..."so much great info here"!! Which is much appreciated, as always.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
We're doing La Coutale BTG for $15..

Bravo Nyc. It's BTB for $18 in this Massachusetts university town. Which is not exactly a low-rent town as far as these things go.

This pretty much sums up the silos we call the restaurant/wine bar business in NYC. There needs to be some type of Open Source counter argument to our current walled gardens.

As this is the successful business model it's a wonder that the oil companies don't subsidize SUV's to the point of making them free - like mobile phones.

I have to wonder that a place like Thirstbaravin can continue down this path as they have positioned themselves in what amounts to as a destination location. Why not sell the wines at 2X wholesale ILO of 2X-4X retail? Instead of nursing one-two glasses over the course of a meal, one could enjoy one to two bottles, eat more, tip more and take a cab/car service home?

That's my rant - still pining for a 360 replacement.
 
I'd avoid wines made at high altitude desert climates. Unnatural, like making wine on the moon. Everything is irrigated, so the roots are lazy. The maturations tend to be too fast (despite the cool nights), so picking super ripe is the norm, and acidulation is the consequence. The acid tastes separate from the fruit. It's not gross, just industrial. Souless. If I have to drink a malbec, I always choose the one with the lowest alcohol. Patagonia may be a better bet.
 
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