Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Apparently, it is too difficult to determine where to send the checks for $0.00, as we all use the same trade dress typeface.
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A thought on Beaujolais
- Thread starter Claude Kolm
- Start date
Apparently, it is too difficult to determine where to send the checks for $0.00, as we all use the same trade dress typeface.
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
How so? If the producers get the idea that people want and will pay extra for the style of 2009, the producers will search for and find techniques to give that style every year, no matter want.originally posted by Yixin:
Woah. The lack of an 1855 classification should slow things down, one hopes.
I'm looking at it from the demand end. My hypothesis (hope?) is that most end users require more than just points to sustain their interest in a certain region/style of wine. People can kid themselves about the classification in Bordeaux or pretend they know exactly why thie 1er cru is in fact 'better' than that grand cru in Burgundy, but there's less of a supporting rubric in Beaujolais. So the sustained buying interest will be for a couple of vintages before they move on to the next hot thing.
The 'pure' points-chasers (there aren't that many, in my experience) are just the thin end of the wedge, for there are more than enough points to go round; it's status-chasers, the ones who need to appeal to multiple sources of authority (whether to affirm their choices or to inflate their non-conformist egos), who really fuck things up. And in a world where most basic needs are met (especially for wine end users), but esteem is about relative positioning for the most part, status-chasing is the name of the game.
So one sees far greater price differentiation and style modification in Pu Er and certain oolong teas (especially from the border between Guangdong and Fujian) than in, say, Taiwanese oolongs or the yellow teas from Anhui, both of which have less established hierarchies. I was entertained at a banquet with a succession of Pu Ers, culminating in a well-aged example which cost more than the food itself (per serving), and only marginally cheaper than the horizontal of 2005 First Growths. These were guys who one could reasonably attach the labels of 'sophistication' and 'connoiseurs' to, and they were the same ones powering Acker to a record year in Hong Kong. Could they discourse intelligently about the right conditions for aging Pu Er and the differences in tannin structure? Sure. Did they know their Haut-Brion from their Margaux? Oh yes. Did dinner conversation reek of spunk and hand cream? You betcha.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Yixin, can you cut to the chase and tell me what kind of oolong I should be buying so that I don't have to do the research on my own?
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
Damn, I'm lucky to have read your post so I would truly understand the nature of the 2010 vintage here in Napa. Damn it's good to be an insider.originally posted by Yule Kim:
TN: 2010 NapaI don't know about you guys, but 2010 Napa was superb this year (cabbage that is). So back up the truck and fill your cellars with kimchi stuffed onggi. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onggi
My mother's kimchi was atypically phenomenal...which is even more shocking because she had to spoof this year's batch by replacing the shrimp with anchovies in the brining solution to accommodate my sister's fiance's shellfish allergy. O tempora, o mores.
Crisp, yet chewy. Bright, and long on the finish with vibrant saline notes. But, it was lacking...a certain je ne sais quois. I just wish it could have been a bit brinier...a little truer to the sea, but I guess we didn't want the guy to go to the emergency room. C'est la vie.
2010 for Napa Cabbage in the States...un millesime exceptionnel. Think '82 Bordeaux, '07 S. Rhone, and, dare I say it, '09 Beaujolais. Game changing...personally I think we need to hire Michel Rolland. With a little reverse osmosis, I'm sure every year from now on will be a 2010.
But skip 2010 kimchi in Korea. Abysmal, nasty, thin in the midpalate and totally lacking in finish. I'm 73 points on it.
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Claude brings up 82 Bordeaux as an example of a vintage which winemakers may have tried to emulate, regrettably.
But I think there is another parallel. Top 82 Bordeaux are incredible, but with a touch of overripeness the wines would get disproportionally less interesting, i.e. it was easy to tip the balance. I find the same to be true for 2009 Beaujolais.
IMO, the 2009s have been overhyped, *here*. Not the top wines, but the ones which are getting a piggyback ride. Having a fruit profile similar to Clos de la Roilette's does not make a wine nearly as great, particularly if transparency is lost or, worse, softness ensues after hours of air.
2007s are wonderful, plenty of development still to come in bottle, and the prices are great. But 2009s which have passed the test in my shot glass are too unique to warrant any suggestion of being substituted.
But I think there is another parallel. Top 82 Bordeaux are incredible, but with a touch of overripeness the wines would get disproportionally less interesting, i.e. it was easy to tip the balance. I find the same to be true for 2009 Beaujolais.
IMO, the 2009s have been overhyped, *here*. Not the top wines, but the ones which are getting a piggyback ride. Having a fruit profile similar to Clos de la Roilette's does not make a wine nearly as great, particularly if transparency is lost or, worse, softness ensues after hours of air.
2007s are wonderful, plenty of development still to come in bottle, and the prices are great. But 2009s which have passed the test in my shot glass are too unique to warrant any suggestion of being substituted.
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Much of this discussion sounds like college kids discussing U2 and REM "selling out" in 1987 (or earlier depending on which album they thought was the sell out).
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Yixin, can you cut to the chase and tell me what kind of oolong I should be buying so that I don't have to do the research on my own?
Drinking a Fenghuang Dancong (凤凰单丛) now, from the old bushes on the ledge. Acquired from a merchant in Guangzhou whose family has a part-share in the bushes in question. It's not strictly speaking a Guangdong tea since it's from the Chaozhou region, which shows more affinity with Fujian in its treatment of pork and tea. At its best, this is an intensely floral yet subtle tea, with a crazy finish. I'm 98 points on this.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Much of this discussion sounds like college kids discussing U2 and REM "selling out" in 1987 (or earlier depending on which album they thought was the sell out).
Are you saying you haven't seen a change in the general character of red Bordeaux wines subsequent to 1982?
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Yixin, can you cut to the chase and tell me what kind of oolong I should be buying so that I don't have to do the research on my own?
Drinking a Fenghuang Dancong (·ï»Ëµ¥´Ô) now, from the old bushes on the ledge. Acquired from a merchant in Guangzhou whose family has a part-share in the bushes in question. It's not strictly speaking a Guangdong tea since it's from the Chaozhou region, which shows more affinity with Fujian in its treatment of pork and tea. At its best, this is an intensely floral yet subtle tea, with a crazy finish. I'm 98 points on this.
Thanks for the insight, and the smile on the finish.
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Much of this discussion sounds like college kids discussing U2 and REM "selling out" in 1987 (or earlier depending on which album they thought was the sell out).
Are you saying you haven't seen a change in the general character of red Bordeaux wines subsequent to 1982?
No. I am comparing (very loosely) 2009 Beaujolais to a couple of bands that were once beloved by the cool kids, but became personna non grata when they achieved success and recognition.
U
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originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Are you saying you haven't seen a change in the general character of red Bordeaux wines subsequent to 1982?
Lafite got better.
Joel Stewart
Joel Stewart
I'm with the beer drinkers on Beaujolais.
Joe Dressner
Joe Dressner
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Much of this discussion sounds like college kids discussing U2 and REM "selling out" in 1987 (or earlier depending on which album they thought was the sell out).
David:
Which 2009 Beaujolais have you consumed?
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Lapierre (the regular), Foillard CdPy, Brun Morgon, Brun Moulin-a-Vent, Jadot Moulin-a-Vent and a few others. I like them very much. I have enjoyed the variations in Beaujolais over the last several vintages (2002-2009), and see no reason to be concerned over a ripe vintage that's a hit with non-geeks.
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
I opened '09 Foillard CdPy last night. As delicious as it was, the lack of structure was a bit worrisome. There's still some left in the bottle to try tonight so perhaps some acid/tannin notes will show themselves.
I've liked all the '09s I've tried (except Duboeuf Julienas Ch. des Capitans which was all acid and no fruit, tried it from 2 different bottles). Somes are definitely better than others. Chanrion Cote de Brouilly took almost a week to strut its stuff. I'm only cellaring the usual suspects (Roilette CT, Lapierre, Brun Cote de Brouilly, Foillard remains to be seen). One thing I do like about this vintage is I can walk into a wine store and feel pretty safe about trying a new one that will give some amount of pleasure at the dinner table.
I've liked all the '09s I've tried (except Duboeuf Julienas Ch. des Capitans which was all acid and no fruit, tried it from 2 different bottles). Somes are definitely better than others. Chanrion Cote de Brouilly took almost a week to strut its stuff. I'm only cellaring the usual suspects (Roilette CT, Lapierre, Brun Cote de Brouilly, Foillard remains to be seen). One thing I do like about this vintage is I can walk into a wine store and feel pretty safe about trying a new one that will give some amount of pleasure at the dinner table.
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Much of this discussion sounds like college kids discussing U2 and REM "selling out" in 1987 (or earlier depending on which album they thought was the sell out).
Are you saying you haven't seen a change in the general character of red Bordeaux wines subsequent to 1982?
No. I am comparing (very loosely) 2009 Beaujolais to a couple of bands that were once beloved by the cool kids, but became personna non grata when they achieved success and recognition.
You have to admit, REM did go downhill after Automatic for the People and U2 hasn't been the same since Achtung Baby.
But, true, at least w/r/t REM, they still did some good work after signing with Warner Bros (though their best work was done with IRS).
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
originally posted by Yule Kim:
You have to admit, REM did go downhill after Automatic for the People and U2 hasn't been the same since Achtung Baby.
I won't disagree with that (allowing for minor bright spots here and there), but there were (and still are) those who toss out anything U2 did after War, and the entire REM catalog from Fables to the present day. Ah college radio in the 80s - it was not unlike Disorder.
2007 Beaujolais was and is great. It's the first vintage I really started exploring Cru Beaujolais and the better Beaujolais-Village. I had a 2007 Vissoux Cuvee Traditionnelle recently that was absolutely delicious and elegant and different from a bottle that I had closer to release. I'm sure when I'm able to try it, the 2009 will also be delicious in its own, and very different way. And, the same will be true in 2010 and onwards. And I look forward to being able to explore and learn more about these great wines, winegrowers, and terroirs with each new vintage.
And if it takes an uber-hyped vintage to get people to try these wines, then that's great. Hopefully they too will be as inspired as I was after trying these wines and continue to explore and support these growers with each new year.
And if it takes an uber-hyped vintage to get people to try these wines, then that's great. Hopefully they too will be as inspired as I was after trying these wines and continue to explore and support these growers with each new year.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Larry Stein:
I opened '09 Foillard CdPy last night. As delicious as it was, the lack of structure was a bit worrisome. There's still some left in the bottle to try tonight so perhaps some acid/tannin notes will show themselves.
I have no doubt that you are describing the wine exactly as you see it, and I have no intention of questioning your perception.
But I have a very different take on this bottle, which has taken me as little as 1 hour and as long as 3 days to consume.
If you require an isolated expression of acid or tannin as a sign of structure here, you'll be waiting for a very long time. The fact that this generously endowed wine is framing its fruit with such freshness and clarity, and that it possesses such a strong sense of tarry, smoky large-grained minerality, is good enough for me.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Are you saying you haven't seen a change in the general character of red Bordeaux wines subsequent to 1982?
Lafite got better.
Sure. And La Mission Haut Brion has had a string of gems. And Palmer still had 1983 ahead of it.
But a lot has beeen lost in the fire, I think.