A thought on Beaujolais
- Thread starter Claude Kolm
- Start date
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
You referring to the artificial concentration period? You liked it?
U
Unknown
Guest
You mean, since 1996 ? No, I don't like it as much, although 96 itself I can live with.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Well, I guess I have to respond to this a bit, because in this scenario, I would be considered one of those kids.
Except that I have no problem with the success of 2009 Beaujolais. I actually was thinking about doing a post up hailing 2010 as the year when David Lillie's palate and the wines he has championed were generally recognized outside of Disorder. It has become muscadet and beaujolais for most folks now, and that wasn't the case a few years ago. I praise his foresight and good sense.
My take isn't that I am upset that other people are onto it. Other people aren't really on to it that much, or I would be selling more Karim Vionnet at the restaurant than I am. My take is that the Beaujolais that I am encountering from 2009 have been in a couple of instances too fruity for me at this stage in their development, which speaks to their low acid profile. And in other instances they could charitably be described as shut down.
With that in mind it seems to make a lot of sense to me to return in my own drinking habits to 2007s, which are often just hitting their stride and which I paid a song for in a few instances because they were closed out. Also, in a restaurant context, 2007 was something you could get quantity on and pour by the glass (I poured Tete for a long time), but with 2009 that is more difficult. You can't get the quantity and the pricing can be high. So to me all around 2009 is a less useful vintage in Beaujolais at this time than 2007 was and is.
In a few years it will be a different scenario.
The other thing I would point out is that if you drink a goodly amount of Nebbiolo and your palate is attuned to that, the 2009 Beaujolais can just seem toooo fruity. People coming from another prospective would most likely have another take.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Actually, without double checking old notes, my recollection is that 1996 or 1997 is when they stopped the artificial concentration.
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
I don't drink as much Nebbiolo as I would like. If that's your benchmark then I guess can see your point, though it would then seem you are either drawing a very narrow range of what are acceptable vintage conditions or suggesting disingenuous wine making. As I said above, I enjoy the variations, and appreciate 2007 for its charms while appreciating 2009 for its (different) charms.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Hmm. Can't say that I see it the same way.
U
Unknown
Guest
Did they really ? I wonder what else they stopped and started, and when, to have made such great wines in the 80s and early 90s.
I should say though that I really like 75, 76, 79, 81 and more recently 78. Most of the top examples since 82 are not mature yet, so I guess we have to wait and see.
David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Ok - perhaps we can discuss it in person some day. Always more fruitful than trying to deal with it back and forth on line.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Those are all pre-concentration. Again, without going back and searching through my notes, my recollection is that 1986 is when they started the concentration regime.
Bill Bounds
Bill Bounds
Regards the 2009 Foillard CdP, I have had this wine three times. The first time my wife and I drank a bottle with dinner; we both agreed that the wine had candied fruit. A couple of weeks later we drank the second bottle to see if the candied fruit was really there; once again we thought it was. The third time I served it to someone who drinks alot of different wines and makes wines. He loved the wine. At the same time, I took a sip out of my glass and poured the rest out. I almost never pour out wine. I will be very reluctant to drink the rest of my case.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Hm, there are a lot laudatory notes on this wine in 09. I'm hoping to open one next week and will add my 2 cents' worth then. I'm a Foillard groupie since the folks here bullied me into trying the 07.
Bill Bounds
Bill Bounds
And I'm a fan also. When I got my shipment in of Beaujolais in, the Foillard was the first one that I drank - thinking that I might want two cases instead of just a case. Foillard even made a good 2003.
scottreiner
scott reiner
i recently had a bottle of erpacrife sparkly nebbiolo that made me very happy. lots of funk and an acid profile that screamed "drink more of me, and grab some food!"
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
On day 2, the Foillard had firmed up a bit and the fruit was more typically Beaujolais-like (that is less overly-fruited). Unless one prefers the day 1 style, I'd recommend drinking one bottle over 2-3 days to really get a sense of what the wine is and might turn out to be. And then, cellar the rest.
Joe Dressner
Joe Dressner
There is a major confusion going on here about "style" decisions.
What happened while Chauvet was alive was that the major négoce and growers (following them) made decisions to systematically go to 12.5 or 13.5 degrees no matter what nature gave them. That is, through chaptalization. In the early 90s, one of the French consumer advocate magazines did random tests and found added sugar levels up to 4.5%.
There had been a vintage with naturally high alcohol and the public liked it. So the Beaujolais trade decided to replicate it for the next 20 years. The Beaujolais of 10 degrees was gone.
Up until recently, the Brun l'Ancien would often come in at a shade above 10 degrees. Now, it is at somewhere between 11 and 12. It is a bottling I love, collect and drink and I still think the best thing Jean-Paul makes. 11.8 is a high degree of Alcohol for this cuvée, but honestly, it is still in the realm of what Beaujolais has always been.
And still delicious with Saucisson.
Speaking of Saucisson, I always think it is impossible to find a good one in America. But I have been proven wrong by SF Joe, who has found a decent example he served me once. Please send all your inquiries to him.
For various reasons, natural alcohol has become high naturally, and the question for me is largely a question of balance. All you wiseguys can say that is what Parker says about spoof, but we are talking about different tastes and different categories of wine.
Anyhow, the only doping I know in the Beaujolais is Thermovinification, now practiced by the vast, vast majority of the Beaujolais region. It is the new Duboeuf style and has dominated the region's vinification style for nearly 8 or 10 years..
What happened while Chauvet was alive was that the major négoce and growers (following them) made decisions to systematically go to 12.5 or 13.5 degrees no matter what nature gave them. That is, through chaptalization. In the early 90s, one of the French consumer advocate magazines did random tests and found added sugar levels up to 4.5%.
There had been a vintage with naturally high alcohol and the public liked it. So the Beaujolais trade decided to replicate it for the next 20 years. The Beaujolais of 10 degrees was gone.
Up until recently, the Brun l'Ancien would often come in at a shade above 10 degrees. Now, it is at somewhere between 11 and 12. It is a bottling I love, collect and drink and I still think the best thing Jean-Paul makes. 11.8 is a high degree of Alcohol for this cuvée, but honestly, it is still in the realm of what Beaujolais has always been.
And still delicious with Saucisson.
Speaking of Saucisson, I always think it is impossible to find a good one in America. But I have been proven wrong by SF Joe, who has found a decent example he served me once. Please send all your inquiries to him.
For various reasons, natural alcohol has become high naturally, and the question for me is largely a question of balance. All you wiseguys can say that is what Parker says about spoof, but we are talking about different tastes and different categories of wine.
Anyhow, the only doping I know in the Beaujolais is Thermovinification, now practiced by the vast, vast majority of the Beaujolais region. It is the new Duboeuf style and has dominated the region's vinification style for nearly 8 or 10 years..
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Thanks for your thoughtful observations, Joe, they hearken back some to Kermit's Beaujolais chapter in Wine Road. I only started to explore this region a few years ago, starting with Dubouef and working up to the more carefully-made wines, largely with the help of Jim, Cliff, Nathan (you know, the hand-wringers), and some skilled importers. The exploration's been as interesting as the ingestion.
U
Unknown
Guest
I love l'Ancien, young and aged. Sorry I made a stink about the cork earlier, but you can see why. I am intrigued by and very open minded about Brun's other wines, but I am still experimenting.