When Will I Learn: Dinner at the German Embassy

R

Rahsaan

Rahsaan
Tonight was a work dinner at the German Embassy. Over forty people so the wines were nothing fabulous. A very drinkable 2006 Weil Riesling QbA Trocken and a more than respectable 2005 Sonett Heger Sptburgunder QbA Trocken "Q" which was juicy fresh and interesting enough to keep me going through several glasses.

Over schnapps and cognac I was talking with the ambassador and (like all intelligent people) he was a wine lover, although he (surprisingly) was singing the praises of dry German riesling as the best white wine in the world. Naturally I could not avoid an argument and although I love certain examples of dry German riesling, I at least wanted him to qualify his statement.

He went on to proclaim Grnhauser sptlese trocken as his example of the German Riesling Heights and 'threatened' to take me down in his cellar to open bottles and straighten me out. But as a Grnhauser fan I had to speak up for the 'sweet' sptlese and then it all got blurred in the hustle and bustle and here I am.

Oh well.

When will I learn.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Hey, at least you're not still in the cellar.
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Yes, my wine consumption may have been prematurely halted for the evening, but I will sleep better as a result.
 
a) The more dry German Riesling I drink, the more I crave it.

b) You didn't have to be at the dinner in Berlin 3 (or 2 -- it passes so fast?) years ago in honor of the U.S. Ambassador (a clueless industrialist from Ohio) -- primarily it was for wine journalists and people in the trade. Very difficult as the revelations of U.S. torture had come out only 3-5 months before. Finally, at my table (where there were no US diplomats), I had to come out and say -- no to torture. The wife of the Irish diplomat agreed with me; the Wrttemberg producer to my left, with his Ehreschmisse, was very upset with me, and everyone else sat there in embarrassed silence. Schade!
 
At least you did the right thing. And who drinks anything from Wrttemberg these days anyway?

-Eden (I'd probably be a lousy diplomat - I rarely even know which fork to use, much less whose war crimes to embrace or denounce)
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
The more dry German Riesling I drink, the more I crave it.
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Yes, I enjoy the wines and have no problems with the good examples. But for some reason I am inspired to argue with people when they are so enthusiastic because I still am not convinced that as a 'category' dry German riesling is at the level of off-dry German riesling.

Because from my experiences, I can much more reliably find great off-dry riesling than great dry riesling from the top German producers.

Of course that may just be a function of my tastes and preferences for the Mosel, Saar, and Ruwer, where it is harder to make great dry riesling.

So, I guess this is just about me and my limitations afterall.

Damn!
 
originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
And who drinks anything from Wrttemberg these days anyway?
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I don't buy the wines in the States but when buying in Germany, Baden-Wrttemberg is filled with tasty wine choices for under 10euros.

In fact, I really like the basic ones from solid producers (even the Sasbach co-op) and consider them to be Lovely Wine Experiences. Juicy, fresh, fun, like good basic Beaujolais, and again the low price doesn't hurt.

Apparently the wine we had tonight is $20-30 in the US and the UK (who knows what the ambassador/German taxpayers paid), which is a different story, and the reason I don't buy these wines outside of Germany.

But for native/local juicy fun, I think they definitely make sense.
 
I'm not a fan of trockens, but I do think Grunhauser makes some of the best in that style. Taking the sugar out of perfectly good Riesling makes no sense to me.
 
Trocken wines need to have sufficient age on them to make any sense whatsoever. Give them a decade in the cellar and (for the most part) they really show what they're about. The Karthauserhof Auslese Trocken is one of my favorites, as is Donnhoff's 2004 Grauburgunder Trocken "S". I had a bottle of that recently and it's coming around a little sooner than would a Riesling.

-Eden (I've never had a Trocken wine that I've felt was too old)
 
originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
Trocken wines need to have sufficient age on them to make any sense whatsoever. Give them a decade in the cellar...I've never had a Trocken wine that I've felt was too old
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You must really purchase wisely!

Bravo.

In some respects I guess I see the logic since the wines may be austere in youth and need age to develop complexity.

But, I thought the conventional wisdom was that the Grosses Gewachs wines are not aging as long as the off-dry wines?
 
I am with Claude.

I am with the Embassador (in London?)

I am with Rahsaan.

Generalisations are a git from heaven to be seen to agree with everybody.

Yes, German dry Riesling can be great - whoever has had a mature Breuer, Koeher-Ruprecht, Karthuserhof Auslese S Trocken, etc. can testify that. Keller and Dnnhoff make stunning dry white wines that are often impossible to resist.

Do the Grosse Gewchse age well? Maybe, maybe not - the jury is out. But there is dry Riesling outside of the GG bandwagon.

Personnally, I prefer my wines with some RS but I can understand the fascination of young steely bone dry Riesling.

But this is a great situation in which one can have the pudding and eat it. No need to choose!
 
I am not going to dispute that - I love Franken Silvaner as many here know.

But to many, Franken Silvaner is too flabby and low in acidity.
 
originally posted by The Fish:

I am with the Embassador (in London?)
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DC

Do the Grosse Gewchse age well? Maybe, maybe not - the jury is out. But there is dry Riesling outside of the GG bandwagon.
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Fair enough. And from what I can tell von Schubert is still selling back vintages of the dry wines from several pradikat so will try to purchase some on my next trip to Germany for education purposes.
 
originally posted by The Fish:

But to many, Franken Silvaner is too flabby and low in acidity.
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I've only had a few ( a '94 and assorted '97's from Wirshing and Juliuspital, thanks to D.Bueker for Oodles of Bocksbeutals night) and those were quite piercing. From that limited set I wouldn't have imagined a flabby/soft variant so thanks for the warning.
 
The issue with dry German Riesling is the same one for off-dry German Riesling. We must talk about three things: producer, producer, producer (sounds like Burgundy).

There's an ocean of crap on both sides of the sugar spectrum, but indeed the top trockens are great dry wines. Of course not all of them are actually dry. There's that 0-9 g/l range for residual sugar that leaves quite a lot of freedom in terms of how the final wine expresses itself. Just taste some of hte dry wines from Jonannes Leitz. That little bit (usually around 7-8 g/l) of sugar gives them the push from good but stern to delicious and drinkable. I'm sure (in my own mind...betting on it in my cellar) it will also help them age even better than some of the bone dry examples of German Riesling Trocken.

I do like Johannes Leitz's approach to trockens. If it ferments dry then fine, it can be dry, but if it doesn't he does not force it. So it's not like taking the sugar out of a perfectly good off-dry wine (hmmm, Kane wrong?), but rather letting the wine be what it wants to be. At least that's how Johannes says it goes for his top dry wines (e.g. Rottland Alte Reben).
 
Silvaner comes over as flabby and broad when compared to Riesling.

On its own, with the right food and if one avoids vintages such as 99 or 03, no worry.
 
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