Aging things you're not supposed to

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Aging things you're not supposed toThis weekend I had a minor Corbires from 1999, and damn if the thing wasn't beautifully smooth and unctuous. This got me to thinking that, of course, any reasonable wine drinker would not have kept a minor (I'm talking entry level whatnot from someone no one knows) wine of such an appellation for nearly ten years. Yet it was good! Better than good!

Which reminded me of a superannuated Aligot I had in Issoudun once (don't ask). Beautiful, curious wine.

I am now on the hunt for other stories of this ilk. Anyone else had great overold surprises?
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A very interesting hunt indeed. Of course, I'm not a reasonable wine drinker, and possibly I'm a bit contrary. I thought that the standard advice for any Corbires that you like (important proviso - any reasonable wine drinker would only keep a wine they like) was "drink in its youth or age for 5 to 8 years". So eight years, nine years, close enough - it's not such a long time for a wine with the structure of a decent Corbires.

It's a question of expectations. One great surprise for me was the Tondonia Ros 1988 that we had in 2002 I think it was. It was the current release at the time, and a beautiful, beguiling wine. For me it had an appeal similar to, say, Haut-Brion blanc (properly aged, of course). That was just the first time my expectations regarding ageability of a pink wine were confounded.

Another interesting example is Hanzell 1981 Chardonnay, which I also had in 2002. The first sip confirmed my expectations that California Chardonnay does not have an aptitude for aging. The wine was clearly DOA, madeirised. Except 30 minutes later, airing out in the glass, the wine came to life. It was glorious, rich, complex, golden-fruited, and long. Since then I have learned that there are indeed several California Chardonnays that age very well. It seems to depend on the combination of a good site and a winemaker who believes in the value of ageability.

I recently found a few bottles of a 1996 St.-Joseph from Perret, which I don't even remember buying. Today this pure, fruit-driven wine is clearly at maturity, but seems to be holding reasonably well.

I'm curious, though, why would Southern wines be more ageable than Northern wines? I would have thought the opposite. And when did Xinomavro and Mondeuse lose their ageability? (Their expectation of ageability, that is.) Dolcetto, a 1996 G. Conterno that blew us away in 2006 notwithstanding, still lacks that expectation. But, Keith, when I come to share your Xinomavro and Mondeuse, I will gladly be educated in Dolcetto at the same time.

And what the hell is "minor" wine, anyway?
 
originally posted by Jeff Connell:
I'm curious, though, why would Southern wines be more ageable than Northern wines? I would have thought the opposite.
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Yes, I suppose in the fruit vs. acid debate the acid will be better for aging.

But, some fruit is still required and my estimate was that in minor wine from the South one was more likely to find decent enough acid to support all the fruit for aging 5-10 years whereas in minor wine from the North one might not find enough fruit to support aging 5-10 years.

But I could be wrong.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
One with lots of sharps and flats in it.

No, I just meant a cheapie I picked up for 2.98 in a bin somewhere.
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Ah, so, wine in a minor key. Under-appreciated, misunderstood, perhaps forgotten about in the cellar... And then one day you find an unexpected pleasure. Care for a little vin jaune?

I have an experimental bottle of Serradayres 1990, I think it is a Ribatejo, that I bought for $2.99. This last bottle I just never drank, so there it sits. Maybe forever (most unlikely). Actually a second experimental bottle I drank 2 or 3 years ago. It was fine, perfectly drinkable, certainly with some bottle sweetness, but probably not as good as it was in its youth.
 
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Give me a call in 10 years if you're interested in some aged xinomavro, mondeuse, or dolcetto.
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So you've gone long in Marcarini Dolcetto Boschi Di Berri ?

I can't keep my hands from opening them, no matter what my brain tells me.

I've got random bottles of Loire cheapies (an oxymoron?) and Beaujolais tucked away for similar experiments.
 
originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
Matt Kramer has always refused to inventory his wine cellar precisely because NOT knowing what's in there leads to some great surprises when a forgotten bottle is uncovered way past its implied drinking window. Following his example, some of my storage lockers remain uninventoried, leading to some fine spelunking sessions where unexpected treasures appear.
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Precisely. I mean, imprecisely. I subscribe to cellaring techniques resembling Wilhelm Furtwangler's method of conducting. Some inventory control does exist, so that I could find something suitable for a dinner or a tasting in at least O(log n), but the experience of having discovered things intentionally lost in the cellar - 10+ yr old beaujolais, non-vintage champagne, cote du rhones, etc. - has been much more positive than not.

Jeff, 1988 Tondonia Rosado is a remarkable wine. We'll be lucky to see anything of the kind from the 93 or 97. Like a great old Meursault that decided to turn pink, just to see what it's like to be paired up with tapas.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
Jeff, 1988 Tondonia Rosado is a remarkable wine. We'll be lucky to see anything of the kind from the 93 or 97. Like a great old Meursault that decided to turn pink, just to see what it's like to be paired up with tapas.
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Can we have some more, please?
 
originally posted by Chris Coad:
certainly with some bottle sweetness
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Is this sweetness the same as the aggressive resweetening curve that we've heard recently comes naturally to Southern Rhne reds?
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Don't think so. I think it is what happens to fruit when it gets to tertiary character - or goes beyond. At any rate, it wasn't aggressive.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
Precisely. I mean, imprecisely. I subscribe to cellaring techniques resembling Wilhelm Furtwangler's method of conducting. Some inventory control does exist, so that I could find something suitable for a dinner or a tasting in at least O(log n), but the experience of having discovered things intentionally lost in the cellar - 10+ yr old beaujolais, non-vintage champagne, cote du rhones, etc. - has been much more positive than not.
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Good to get some validation of this approach from the more experienced. Not that I could alter it if I wanted to...
 
originally posted by Don Rice:

As an example he poured a glass of 1978 cab from defunct CA maker Spring Mountain. Unfortunately, it was corked.
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Don, Spring Mountain Vineyards is still producing wine. Either that or someone is doing a pretty good job slapping their labels onto bottles in our warehouse?

Marshall
 
IN keeping with this thread's theme, last night I opened a bottle of 1997 Western Ridge Barossa Valley "Cabernet Shiraz" (their quotation marks, not mine). This was made (IIRC) by Rolf Binder before he was ROLF BINDER!!! and weighed in at a might 13% alcohol. My expectations were not high - 1997 was an okay vintage but few monumental wines appeared from that year, plus Cabernet Sauvignon isn't exactly God's chosen grape in the Barossa. Adding to my diminished hope was the fact that the bottle had been standing upright in a closet for oh, about six years. It was an unheated closet and it received no direct sunlight but still, the odds were monumental that it would be verging on toxic.

Well, it exceeded my expectations, but not by much. If I'd taken notes, I would have called it "pleasant" and maybe even "charming". It had not discernable varietal (sorry Thor) character of either varieties (appropriate usage?) in the blend, but it wasn't horrible. It was red, wet, conveyed alchol, and had no overt flaws other than the lack of concentration typical in 1997 Barossa Cabernets (Shiraz was much more viable in the area in 1997, although I wouldn't cellar them for any descendants I might accumulate on the way).

This morning it was another wine entirely. Rather than a phoenix-like resurrection, it had gone straight to hell, leaving in its wake a malodorous tinge of nail polish remover that was strong enough to remind me of the smell of all of the Vietnamese fingernail joints in Orange County on a warm summer day.

This wine probably would have been much better had I opened it five years ago - I don't think that its storage affected it all that much.

-Eden (I'm not going to even consider opening the 1987 Calera "Young Vines" Mount Harlan Chardonnay that was found standing next to the Western Ridge...sheesh, it's the color of, like Coca-Cola)
 
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