Jancis Robinson on goings-on in the northern Rhône

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originally posted by VS:
originally posted by John Roberts:
Didn't Jancis write an article a couple of years ago saying that Cornas was largely undrinkable?
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That was almost 11 years ago (May 2000), in the Financial Times, when she described a Cornas tasting: "If I tell you that in the end we had to plunder our host the Collector's cellar to find something that was fun to drink, then you will grasp something of Cornas's inherent ability to please. Of the 17 bottles, from several different cellars and sources, two were reduced and stinky (as Syrah so easily can be), 16 were tough (mostly as old boots), one was corked, one was metallic, one was volatile and another slightly oxidised."

But then in 2007 she wrote on her web site: "Seven years ago I was so unmoved by a tasting of some of supposedly smart wines from this famous appellation that I wrote 'Cornas an old but sorry tale' in the Financial Times. But things have moved on and today there are perhaps a dozen really exciting producers in this favoured corner of the northern Rhône. I even chose no fewer than two Cornass as wines of the week in late 2004 for example, Dom Joël et Eric Durand 2000 Cornas and Dom Vincent Paris, Granit 60 2000 Cornas."
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Thanks for tracking those down...
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Speaking of Cornas, has anyone found a bottle of Rosenthal's new guy and tried it? I understand that there is pitifully little of it, and I haven't tracked any down yet.
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Domaine Lionnet?
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Different strokes for different folks. Her increasing enthusiasm for the wines is simultaneous with my rapidly diminishing enthusiasm and what I regard as less than positive changes that I have seen since I began visiting in 1986.

Of her list of Côte-Rôtie favorites -- Bonnefond, Clusel-Roch, Gangloff, Stéphane Ogier, Jamet and Rostaing -- only one overlaps with mine -- Barge, Burgaud, Faury, Jamet, Jasmin, Levet, and Texier -- and otherwise we're at stylistic polar opposites.
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Claude, I'm with you on the list of producers...yet none of them achieve the heights of what I imagine Cote Rotie should be able to achieve...

I now purchase Allemand Reynard as perhaps my fav. N. Rhone bottling.

It seems there is no one in Cote Rotie today who reach the levels of Noel Verset/Allemand Reynard/Clape Cornas...hell, perhaps even Paris Granit.

I always thought Cote Rotie had the Terroir to outperform Cornas?

Recently opened an '00 Jamet and that was perfectly decent with the meal -- Prime Rib...but it didn't provide the level of complexity and interest that I get from Verset/Allemand/Clape.

Which gets to my point...I'm glad this topic was brought up because I was just thinking I have been under-whelmed in Cote Rotie and was hoping someone could enlighten me.

-mark
 
Mark -- A big difference is the much greater presence of old vines in Cornas than in Cte-Rtie. And then there's the vegetal material. For a long time in the 1970s-1980s, maybe even 1990s, people at Cte-Rtie were planting with a Syrah clone that came from the Southern Rhne and not from the indigenous plants. And then, too, there is the great expansion onto the plain above the Ctes (although Cornas is now having its own issues, too, with expansion). Finally, there were a lot more oldtimers in Cornas and they passed a lot on to the younger generation (at least that part that was willing to follow them): in the 1970s and first 7 years or so of the 1980s, the only new vigneron to take over in Cornas was Robert Michel; all the rest of the young people left for non-wine jobs.

Are you familiar with Levet's wines? They come from Ton-ton Chambeyron (not the Chambeyron who today operates in Cte-Rtie). Ton-ton was a legend and no less than Marcel Guigal once told me that Chambeyron was the best in Cte-Rtie in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s when I asked about him. Mme. Levet is Chambeyron's daughter and inherited his vines and still does everything very traditionally; her daughter has been taking over -- very unusual to find a female producer in the Northern Rhne.

Even those who have old vines often dilute them with new vine plantings. When Kermit Lynch was representing Rostaing and Rostaing had inherited Gentaz's vines, Kermit tried to get Rostaing to make a cuve Gentaz. Rostaing did keep the wine separate in cask for a few years and I tasted it there and was superb. But Rostaing blended it back into the other wines.

I'm sure Brzme can add a lot more here.
 
Interesting comments that make me give thought to Cote Rotie.

I used to say that Cote Rotie was perhaps my favorite wine category; however, mostly unconsciously, I have found myself passing on the more recent Cote Rotie bottlings.

. . . . . Pete
 
Interesting, Claude. Sounds like Cote-Rotie is a (slightly) sad story of "too much money" or perhaps "too much fame" -- vignerons felt encouraged to vary their tried and true formulas, use new lands, import fancy vines -- and some have lost the original cause of their fame.
 
Very interesting. Where does Hermitage fall in all of this? My sample size is too small to suss out anything of use. (And I persist, just to keep my punkish categorical cred, that I don't "get" Hermitage.)
 
Is there an 'artisinal' winemaker in CR? I'm just reading The Omnivore's Dilemma now, in which Pollan cites an economist (Porter?) who tries to make a formal economic distinction between artisinal and industrial agricultural production, which is interesting.

Anyway, I'm glad I have a few bottles of Eric's wine now.
 
Hermitage is very complex because of the different terroirs. Basically, to make great red Hermitage, you've got to have vines in the center, and the only ones who have that luxury are the Cave Cooperative, Chapoutier, J-L Chave, Delas, Faurie, Jaboulet (I guess both of them now that it's been split), M. Sorrel, and possibly Guigal, too -- I don't recall off the top of my head, but I think not, or at least not much. There's also one other very small guy who left the coop a few years ago, but I don't recall his name and haven't had his wine. Livingstone-Learmonth has a superb discussion of the different climats of Hermitage.

There's no issue about new plantings on unsuitable land that was added because the appellation is fully planted up and has been as far back as I know. I've never heard criticism about the quality of vegetal material for Hermitage like I have for Cte-Rtie. Oak and/or reverse osmosis have had negative influences with some producers there, and culture of wine is also an issue with some producers.
 
When I first read the question comparing Cote Rotie to Cornas, I had to think for a while because notwithstanding the posts above, I find the comparison itself difficult. I think there are too many differences between the areas, the winemakers, the grapes used, even the weather conditions and the importers of the particular wines to make any sort of comparison across the two areas. I also would caution people against drawing any sort of conclusion on the areas based on our limited availability to various producers in the US. I can only analyze Cornas as an entity unto itself, and Cote Rotie similarly.

One interesting thing to consider is the importers - Kermit brings in 2 of the most well known Cornas producers (Clape and Allemand) and has proportionally much less from Cote Rotie (only Jasmin, out of a much larger pool). Kacher, OTOH, brings in Jamet and Ogier, but nothing from Cornas. Note this is all "to my knowledge", things always change. But is this distinction a result of the differences between the two areas, or does it partially cause the differences?
 
Mike -- Kermit also has Philippe Faury for Cte-Rtie and recently has started with Louis Barruol, of Ch. Ste-Cosme(!), making Cte-Rtie that Kermit selects and imports under Barruol's name.

There's one person on my preferred Cte-Rtie list that Kermit has told me he would have liked to have gotten before another importer got there first, and I suspect that there may be others that he feels that way about.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
For some, importer is not a guide or an issue. Often I feel a disconnect with this and have trouble parsing it.
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Not so sure this is exactly true. Your local caviste is acting as the selection function of your importer, unless you actually go to Ampuis and Cornas to buy your wines. I have noticed some very odd (and polarized) selections of Northern Rhone wines in cavistes all throughout France, including Paris - although my Paris info isn't current because I haven't visited in a while.

Claude, I forgot Faury. But considering the tenure of some of the relationships and the changes evident, do you believe that the importers are solely selecting? Or maybe you don't want to answer that. Certainly this isn't the case at Gaillard, I have to wonder about elsewhere.
 
Oh, that's very true. But what I meant to say is that I don't have an overlap with US importers, for the terms of the discussion here. I.e. my language is pidgin (or theirs is). And, actually, not speaking of Northern Rhne producers but for some other regions, often the experience does come from going to see the vignerons rather than having them "vetted" by cavistes.

Though in truth, they're always vetted by someone, whether by another vigneron or by a caviste or importer or even just a friend who lives in the region. Stumble-upons aren't frequent.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Are you familiar with Levet's wines? .
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Some years back VVW in Palo Alto was getting these from Rosenthal. On the several occasions I tasted them they were certainly traditional and sauvage, but heavily marked by brett, as in really horse shitty. To the extent that even the brett tolerant were challenged. This sample was just a few vintages from around 2000. I've no experience with older years or subsequent ones. Had they been cleaner they would have been very interesting.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Mark -- A big difference is the much greater presence of old vines in Cornas than in Cte-Rtie. And then there's the vegetal material. For a long time in the 1970s-1980s, maybe even 1990s, people were planting with a Syrah clone that came from the Southern Rhne and not from the indigenous plants. And then, too, there is the great expansion onto the plain above the Ctes (although Cornas is now having its own issues, too, with expansion). Finally, there were a lot more oldtimers in Cornas and they passed a lot on to the younger generation (at least that part that was willing to follow them): in the 1970s and first 7 years or so of the 1980s, the only new vigneron to take over in Cornas was Robert Michel; all the rest of the young people left for non-wine jobs.

I'm sure Brzme can add a lot more here.
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Not much to add to this very good summary.

Maybe that the wine culture in both Cornas and Ampuis is close to zero... So no wine culture + no winemaking/vinegrowing tradition = Cote Rotie is these days the closest thing I know in France to a typical New World approach of wine.

I was very surprised that a very few growers from northern rhone had ever tasted wines like Gentaz or Verset. Even people I deeply respect like Th Allemand never had any Gentaz. Same in Cte Rtie where Verset is totally unknown.

I deeply believe that culture is the best protection against globalization.
For wine or anything else.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Different strokes for different folks. Her increasing enthusiasm for the wines is simultaneous with my rapidly diminishing enthusiasm and what I regard as less than positive changes that I have seen since I began visiting in 1986.

Of her list of Côte-Rôtie favorites -- Bonnefond, Clusel-Roch, Gangloff, Stéphane Ogier, Jamet and Rostaing -- only one overlaps with mine -- Barge, Burgaud, Faury, Jamet, Jasmin, Levet, and Texier -- and otherwise we're at stylistic polar opposites.
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I would have expected Gallet to be mentioned somewhere, either as good, bad or ugly. I rather enjoyed 90,91,97,98, was somewhat undecided about 99 and 00, but have lost track since.
 
originally posted by Brézème:

I deeply believe that culture is the best protection against globalization.
For wine or anything else.
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Hmmmm. And here you have .sasha in NYC trying to impose Brezemiste cultural hegemony on every visiting California winemaker he can get his hands on.

What price California culture against globalization, eh?
 
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