TNs: Rhones

Asher

Asher Rubinstein
1998 Michel & Stéphane Ogier Côte-Rôtie
Positively stunning Syrah at about the four hour mark, showing textbook Cote Rotie blue/black fruit, fireplace, earth, smoke and sausage notes. Very dark profile, definitely masculine and powerful. Acidity is bright and juicy. Long finish. In a good place now.

1998 Domaine du Vieux Télégraphe Chateauneuf-du-Pape La Crau
Cellared since release, this is showing a cloudy yet very deep color, with lots of fine sediment swimming around. Initially, a forward palate of nori, light liquorice and warm, resolved red and brown Grenache fruit, a bit of cedar, and showing no over-ripeness which I was concerned about, given the vintage. Spices on the finish. Classic palate, very unadulterated CdP, gentle and soft with age, yet at the same time dusty and rugged with wild blackberry fruit and leather. The tannin has thinned. Long finish of dusty fruit and classic VT notes of seaweed. In its prime. Fine wine, indeed.

1999 Domaine du Vieux Télégraphe Chateauneuf-du-Pape La Crau
This is very VT - nori and iodine notes, surrounding a raspberry core, but is not very '99 CdP at all, in that it is still young, firm and relatively unevolved; surprising. Not nearly ready yet, although on track.

1999 Bernard Burgaud Côte-Rôtie
A very curious showing. When 1st uncorked, there's not much fruit. There are nuances of olives, campfire, menthol and manure. It's not exactly a pleasing combination of tastes. Swirling brings on some tart dark cherry fruit, but it's reluctant. This wine is not corked, and I've stored it well since release. Not sure what to make of this; an off bottle, I suspect. After a night of oxygen, the red and black cherry is more pronounced, and it smells and tastes more like Cote Rotie, that savory herbal/lavender aromatics, mixed with roasted meats, green olive and iron on the palate. The tannins are firmer and show some graininess. I'm not opening another bottle for another two or three years.

2000 Domaine de la Charbonnière Chateauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Vieilles Vignes
I've had the opportunity to follow Charbonniere's 2000 CdP Vieilles Vignes and Perdrix over the years, having gone long on both. In recent years, the VV has let me down in its evolution, as it had been showing more sweet brown fruit notes, like fig pastes and dates, and I've grown to prefer the Perdrix, more rugged and less sweet, as both wines have aged. But a bottle of '00 Perdrix earlier this weekend was showing more evolved and worn, while this most recent VV was pretty good and very well received. The palate is showing more red fruit than brown, surrounded by underbrush, spice and earth notes. There is a touch of sweetness, but not so much fig paste as in the past. Still, it's a gentle, pleasing CdP with age, yet far from profound.

2000 Domaine de la Charbonnière Ch“teauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Mourre des Perdrix
Good showing, but further along in its evolution than last time. Drink now.

2001 Domaine de Marcoux Chateauneuf-du-Pape
This was the "black label" Marcoux, not the tan label (the difference being that the grapes for this "black label" wine come from a plot of land not owned by the Armeniers but, as I understand it, farmed by them and the wine from those grapes is also made by them but labeled separately). Good entry of resolved CdP, wild strawberry, underbrush and garrigue. These flavors are bouyant and interesting, and stand in contrast to the soft texture and mouthfeel of an aged, resolved wine. Tannins are very soft. I don't see this wine getting any better and think it should be enjoyed now. While there was no oxidation overnight in a .375, the wine definitely lacked freshness and couldn't keep my interest on the second night. Drink now.

2004 M. Chapoutier Chateauneuf-du-Pape Croix de Bois
I don't really follow or cellar Chapoutier, as I've always had the impression that they are the Frescobaldi or Mondavi of the Rhone. But a wine reviewer friend of mine digs 'em, telling me all about their Biodynamic techniques, and we went so far as to import some of these and their Chante Alouette a few years ago. This was my first bottle from that lot, and I was impressed. Definitely polished on the outside, but not spoofy, with an inside of vibrant, juicy fruit, underbrush and seared meat juices. Nicely proportioned. The exterior is polished smooth, but that inner core is unmistakably Chateauneuf. No degradation overnight. Both this and last night's '04 Charvin suggest that these wines have plenty of time.

2004 Domaine Charvin Chateauneuf-du-Pape
On the first night, this was not as stacked as a bottle some seven months ago. It showed rather assertive and clean fruit, along with some forest floor, and some dry, silky tannin that gave it some textural interest and suggested that this wine still has a way to go to resolve. On the second night, the fruit is even more pure, very expressive, with cherry with a bit of raspberry, and the tannins are either completely eclipsed by the fruit or seemed to have just melted away overnight. Still, my thought is that this is still too young and will be better with a few more years of sleep in the cellar.

2005 Le Vieux Donjon Chateauneuf-du-Pape
Can the '05 CdPs be hitting their drinking window already? Based on the '05 Marcoux a few months ago, the '05 Cote de L'ange VV last night, and now this '05 Donjon tonight, I have to wonder whether I should be opening more '05 Chateauneuf sooner. My impression has been that '05 is, in general, more deeply structured than '04, '06 and '07, with firmer tannin that requires more aging. But my recent tastes of '05 CdP, including this '05 Donjon, show softening tannins and structure that is giving way to ripe, forward palates. This Donjon, the second bottle from a case purchase (the first was shortly after release), was terrific. Notes of roses, black cherry, dried strawberry and potpourri, along with the trademark Donjon attributes of melted truffle and light animal fur. Tannins are soft, and the mouthfeel caressing. No degradation overnight, on the second night showing raspberry ganache, baking spices and worcheshire. I often think that Donjon shows more of a "brown" palate, e.g., melted truffle, animal fur (without at all meaning to suggest dried out fruit or autumnal notes) rather than Grenache "red", but here this wine displays both red and brown, on a vibrant, juicy and detailed palate. My issue now is whether to start drinking this case sooner rather than later. Often I age CdP and then complain that I opened a wine too late, that I should have caught it at a younger, more vibrant state. Here, like Goldilocks, I caught it just right.

2005 Domaine de la Côte de l'Ange Chateauneuf-du-Pape Vieilles Vignes
Dark berry palate, definitely darker fruit to the expected Grenache red, and the fruit does show good concentration, perhaps from the older vines. The tannins are feathery, powdery even. Polished on the outside, it's missing garrigue and ruggedness, and comes across as tilting toward the international style of CdP, but I wouldn't call it spoofy (the Cuvee Vatican "Sixtine" comes to mind, and that wine also featured a polished, dark berry palate, along with disgusting amounts of caramel oak - not so in this L'Ange). While not advanced, this is showing more cohesive and better integrated than the '04 CdP VV from L'Ange at the same point in its development. This seems to be coming together nicely and still has plenty of upside. No degradation over two nights.

2005 Franck Balthazar Cornas Chaillot
In January of '08, I brought the first bottle of a case to friends' weekend house. I did not take a formal tasting note, but recall a very tight and angular wine, even after a day or two of air. Almost three years in the cellar have softened this second bottle, but still the wine is far from ready. Blue/black Northern Rhone Syrah fruit on the palate, inky, with a bit of cocoa and juicy acidity. The depth of fruit, purity and clarity are impressive. More polished than rustic, but not spoofed. After a few hours of air, the palate is showing sour cherry, but tannins clamp down pretty firmly and I decide that it needs to open up overnight. No degradation overnight, the wine on the second night shows more clarity of fruit, including boysenberry and cassis, and touches of liquorice. The fruit is a bit sweet, reminding me of, but not quite as sweet as, donut filling, but isn't cloying or Australian Shiraz-like. A pretty appealing wine, not a blockbuster, but an honest N. Rhone Syrah that I look forward to watching develop further over many years hence.

2005 Domaine Jasmin Côte-Rôtie
I can see good potential here, but it needs a lot more time to come together. Right now, the oak is pretty dominant - surprising, I think, in comparison to past Jasmin vintages, but J tells me that Jasmin does two bottlings, so this might have been a second release and saw more time in barrel. The fruit is pretty impressive, plums and black raspberry, with a vibrant, juicy acidity that's like a taut, pulsing backbone carrying this wine. The mouthfeel is still pretty young and plush and thick, but the palate itself is well-defined and well proportioned. Give it 5 years in the cellar and I think we'll have a good Cote Rotie.

2006 Domaine de la Charbonnière Chateauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Mourre des Perdrix
Mouthful of red and purple fruit and a bit of spice, sweet powdery tannin, very young and primary and fruit forward, and very nice.

2007 Pierre Gonon St. Joseph
Terrific. The nose here is soaring, particularly on the second night, showing lots of black pepper, smoked meats, herbs and flowers. The palate shows blue/black fruit and black pepper, with a silky, seductive texture and mouthfeel. Wonderful example of N. Rhone Syrah and I am reminded why I often think that Syrah is my favorite varietal. If I had one quibble, it would be that this wine could use more density. It does have excellent aromatics, palate flavors and texture. Then again, this wine is still a baby (albeit drinking very well in its youth) and greater density may come with time. Major yum today.
 
The 05 Charvin is also showing beautifully, as are a couple of others I have tasted. They show more structure than 04, 06 or 07, but a surprising vibrancy and openness. I expressed doubts about this vintage when it was released (though I bought my share) and I'm also thinking I may have been wrong.

On the other hand, 05 was after the arrival of Cambie at Vieux Donjon and I remember that when I tasted the wine on release--and decided not to buy--I was surprised at how overfruited and underwined it was,especially for a Vieux Donjon, which in the old days was quite surly for some years after release. I don't know how that will affect its aging, but in the absence of other experiences with 05 (or even in the presence of other experiences), I would keep Cambiezation in mind when doing re-evaluations. I'm happy it was showing well for you.
 
originally posted by Asher:
2005 Franck Balthazar Cornas Chaillot
In January of '08, I brought the first bottle of a case to friends' weekend house. I did not take a formal tasting note, but recall a very tight and angular wine, even after a day or two of air. Almost three years in the cellar have softened this second bottle, but still the wine is far from ready. Blue/black Northern Rhone Syrah fruit on the palate, inky, with a bit of cocoa and juicy acidity. The depth of fruit, purity and clarity are impressive. More polished than rustic, but not spoofed. After a few hours of air, the palate is showing sour cherry, but tannins clamp down pretty firmly and I decide that it needs to open up overnight. No degradation overnight, the wine on the second night shows more clarity of fruit, including boysenberry and cassis, and touches of liquorice. The fruit is a bit sweet, reminding me of, but not quite as sweet as, donut filling, but isn't cloying or Australian Shiraz-like. A pretty appealing wine, not a blockbuster, but an honest N. Rhone Syrah that I look forward to watching develop further over many years hence.

Thanks for this. I had been thinking about opening a bottle soon. Maybe I'll wait.
 
originally posted by Asher: TNs: Rhones1998 Michel & Stéphane Ogier Côte-Rôtie 1998 Domaine du Vieux Télégraphe Chateauneuf-du-Pape La Crau

A, It's good to receive a snapshot of all the wines you cite, especially the Ogier CR '98 and VT CNdP '98.

While I like the Vieux Telegraphe CNdP '98, it sounds like I might be a bit less impressed than you with this particular bottling; HOWEVER, I haven't had a bottle in quite a while.

Thanks!
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Thanks again. We opened a 99 Burgaud last summer that was similarly querulous. Loesberg has written that he's had good bottles.

Indeed only good bottles. It might be different strokes for different folks. The wine tends toward the earth and olive side of CR. But I don't know what to make of "menthol" and "campfire" as I've never gotten anything like that.
 
A bit off topic, but not too Var. During our ten hour stretch in NY before flying back we had terrific onglets a l'échalotte at Cercle Rouge with a delicious 2005 Côtes de Provence called Chateau Miraval. Google shows that Jacques Loussier built a recording studio there, and many famous musicians (inc. Sting) recorded albums. They have a rosé called Pink Floyd. The oddest twist came in 2008, when Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt saw the chateau from a helicopter and bought it for $60 million. The world is a strange place.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
A bit off topic, but not too Var. During our ten hour stretch in NY before flying back we had terrific onglets a l'échalotte at Cercle Rouge with a delicious 2005 Côtes de Provence called Chateau Miraval. Google shows that Jacques Loussier built a recording studio there, and many famous musicians (inc. Sting) recorded albums. They have a rosé called Pink Floyd. The oddest twist came in 2008, when Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt saw the chateau from a helicopter and bought it for $60 million. The world is a strange place.

I never know what to do with my spare change, either; it's a constant problem.
 
I just think he was being more precise/colorful/imaginative about flavor components. Olive and earth are in our standard wine description lexicon, so they're easier to use. But what he called menthol might be in the same general family with the flavors/aromas most of us call olive. Same thing for earth/campfire.

Or not.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Asher:
2005 Franck Balthazar Cornas Chaillot
In January of '08, I brought the first bottle of a case to friends' weekend house. I did not take a formal tasting note, but recall a very tight and angular wine, even after a day or two of air. Almost three years in the cellar have softened this second bottle, but still the wine is far from ready. Blue/black Northern Rhone Syrah fruit on the palate, inky, with a bit of cocoa and juicy acidity. The depth of fruit, purity and clarity are impressive. More polished than rustic, but not spoofed. After a few hours of air, the palate is showing sour cherry, but tannins clamp down pretty firmly and I decide that it needs to open up overnight. No degradation overnight, the wine on the second night shows more clarity of fruit, including boysenberry and cassis, and touches of liquorice. The fruit is a bit sweet, reminding me of, but not quite as sweet as, donut filling, but isn't cloying or Australian Shiraz-like. A pretty appealing wine, not a blockbuster, but an honest N. Rhone Syrah that I look forward to watching develop further over many years hence.

Thanks for this. I had been thinking about opening a bottle soon. Maybe I'll wait.

If you can get the 07 give it a try cuz though it can/will age nicely it is drinking great right now, in my opinion.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
I just think he was being more precise/colorful/imaginative about flavor components. Olive and earth are in our standard wine description lexicon, so they're easier to use. But what he called menthol might be in the same general family with the flavors/aromas most of us call olive. Same thing for earth/campfire.

Or not.

I guess. With regard to the issue of whether he tasted an off bottle or whether he just doesn't like a wine that I do, though, it matters that I did not mean menthol or a burnt smell when I talked about earth and olives. If Asher also didn't mean that, then I'm not sure why he thinks the bottle is off and it maybe just a difference in taste.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
I just think he was being more precise/colorful/imaginative about flavor components. Olive and earth are in our standard wine description lexicon, so they're easier to use. But what he called menthol might be in the same general family with the flavors/aromas most of us call olive. Same thing for earth/campfire.

Or not.

Sorry, Rahsaan, but I don't buy it. Menthol is terpene-based odorant that might be conflated with eucalyptus or even bergamot (at a stretch), but not with any type of olive that I can think of. Likewise, "earthy" notes such as you get from geosmin are quite distinct from the torrefactive odors. Those latter can be conflated with toast, coffee, chocolate or even burnt matchstick (again, at a stretch) but not in any way that I can see with geosmin and its ilk.

Mark Lipton
 
Thanks for the chemical information. I didn't know what compounds were in the different items, and of course I defer to your judgment.

However, that doesn't mean that people are using these terms 'correctly'. My thought of a connection between menthol and olive was a bitter lifted note. But of course that terminology is not very precise or scientific either!

And then 'earthy' is widely-used to describe all sorts of things, from brett to tannins. I thought the campfire might fit in there somehow.

Anyway, Asher and Jonathan can have at it again if they like.
 
Was I having at it? I'm OK with Asher liking the wine less than I do. I'm also OK with the idea that I've had better bottles. I'm just curious.

And Asher is a model or restraint, not even responding at all, since, really there's nothing that demands his response.

Seems to me, Rahsaan, that you're the troublemaker here.
 
Asher,
Many thanks for the copious notes. I have a number of the wines you mention ('98 VT, '00 Perdrix and VV) and appreciate the update on their progression.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I'm OK with Asher liking the wine less than I do.

i ended up with a shitload of burgaud in the fatcave at one point. an early experience with the 87 was sublime -- almost gentaz sublime -- and i always enjoyed my visits there

over the years i've found them to be endlessly disappointing, yet many of the friends i've shared those disappointing bottles with have been wowed. i like to think that one day, as i get older, and as my corpulence makes my shoes an ever more distant memory, i'll finally acquire the good grace to shut the fuck up and take pleasure in their pleasure.

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