Fires, floods, pestilence and Pinot Noir

[Unknown]

originally posted by Arnt Egil Nordlien:

originally posted by David Lloyd:
Who is Moric?

The king of lemberger.

his blaufränkisch are quite neckisch, too!

 

[georg lauer]

Getting German Pinots should be pretty easy. There are a few online dealers that each sell a significant number of the top estates, so you could just order a mixed case to try them. I am sure they will send to Strasbourg, or some of them you could just drive over from there (Weinrefugium and Behringer are pretty close in Mannheim, a good hour away)

The best addresses are (I have ordered from all of them and they are very reliable and serious):

A huge variety of the top estates at one place, all at winery prices:

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www.weinrefugium.de

Adeneuer/Ahr, Becker/Pfalz, Fuerst/Franken, Huber/Baden, Knipser/Pfalz, Kuhn/Pfalz, Meyer/naekel/Ahr, Rebholz/Pfalz, Salwey/baden, Stodden/Ahr, Ziereisen/Baden

also good selection:

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www.weinrefugium.de

www.guteweine.de
www.weinhalle.de

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www.behringerundsohn.de

And if you go to Schwarzer Adler in Oberbergen, you need to call a couple of days ahead and preorder the truffled Bresse chicken poached in pigs bladder. Maybe my favorite thing to pair with a nice mature Pinot Noir.

 

[Unknown]

originally posted by David Lloyd:
Thankyou we used a retailer to supply the wines but Gatenbein was indeed the winery that did not respond to our enquiries and we could not get the required 07 or 08 vintage from the retailer. But with your suggestion we will look into Gatenbein.

Kracher is distributing Gantenbein in Austria, so you should have chances to trace it there as well. But there are other interesting producers from Grison. You might know Georg Fromm who also has/had a winery in Tasmania. His Pinots from Grison are a valuable and less expensive alternative to Gantenbein. Worth looking at Christian Hermann too, also from Fläsch. Then there is Kesselring from thurgovia.

Very refined Pinots from Neuch“tel delivers Perrochet/La maison carrée. Maybe best enjoyed by themself than to put them in competition, though. Great Chasselas as well.

Besides the wines mentioned, in Germany I've had interesting Spätburgunder from the Pfalz: Sieners Birkweiler Kastanienbusch as well as Schumachers Herxheimer Himmelsreich.

 

[David Lloyd]

OK I am feeling like what was going to be a Pinot free holiday where we visit Eguisheim, Chavanay and Paris will now give me some Pinot charm. All I have to do is find some gorgeous Gamay and I will be happy. However, apart from one person saying don't bother with Austria as it's all sold within Austria these are all I have heard of so far: Achs, Reinisch, Heinrich, Umathum, Loimer, Preisinger.

Am I likely to be able to source them from a shop somewhere? Happy to have a set freighted to one of my gites. I will also be flying out of London in case people want to suggest fine wine stores there. Remember, UK is very foreign to me as I haven't been there for 25 years and take little notice. Wendy and I spent several months as young people touring all over and looking at historic/picturesque stuff and felt our time in future was better set at wine areas or straight holidays to places like Turkey, Vietnam etc. But we have nearly a week in London to catch up with old friends. So hopefully someone can advise of shops/winery info from Austria (if they post/ship) Kaiser Stuhl, Strassbourg/Alsace, Rhone area, Paris or London that I can track down especially URLs please.

 

[David Lloyd]

Just looked at what I wrote. I am over the top. It is my own money and I will only get reimbursed if I find excellence that I take home to the selection ctee to try. But I figure, worst case scenario is 2 cases of PN to enjoy in our Gites. But what a lovely mission and thanks for the continuing help. If any of you are near where we are in Sept you are most welcome to meet up and share some of this vinous charm.

 

[David Lloyd]

Precisely 12 months ago nearly 200 people died in bushfires in my state. Last night we had quite a few large storm cells over my state, like precision guided bombs. We only had 16mm of rain yet others had over 125mm (5"). Flash flooding in suburban Melbourne and where a Yarra Valley vineyard I know had flames licking the winery 12 months back here is a shot from this morning of their kids "boogy boarding" ie surfing on the flood burst going thru their property. Amazing.
See http://twitpic.com/3wk1th

 

[David Lloyd]

originally posted by David Lloyd:
Precisely 12 months ago nearly 200 people died in bushfires in my state. Last night we had quite a few large storm cells over my state, like precision guided bombs. We only had 16mm of rain yet others had over 125mm (5"). Flash flooding in suburban Melbourne and where a Yarra Valley vineyard I know had flames licking the winery 12 months back here is a shot from this morning of their kids "boogy boarding" ie surfing on the flood burst going thru their property. Amazing.
See http://twitpic.com/3wk1th

Be nice if I knew how to edit this stuff.

It is precisely 24 months since the fires!!! Oh, I am obviously in a muddle by the non stop flow of people at cellar door today. No vine work or wine work done.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

There should be an 'edit' link next to the small-font 'posted' line at the bottom of the emails you write.

 

[David Lloyd]

originally posted by .sasha:

originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:
David, screw Germany, France and London, what about Austria? Achs, Reinisch, Heinrich, Umathum, Loimer, Preisinger, et al are producing great Pinot Noir that would be worth having a look at during the 2013 event.

if any of those are as good as the 07 from michlits, I am with you

A friend invited Wendy and I for dinner last night. He presented 3 wines blind with a chicken course. The Only clues were that they were 2006. I thought the third glass was New World, the middle was a Pommard and the first old world but..... The third was Tasmanian, The middle was Domain Duroche Gevrey and the first was Heinrich from Burgenland. Amazing coincidence. It was very good so I will persevere with my attempts to try more Austrian Pinot. He paid $45 which is very good value.

 

[Graeme Gee]

originally posted by David Lloyd:
The closure debate was just below the surface and a cork taint rate amongst some wines reached as high as 4 out of 19 bottles and was usually between 2 and 3 per 16 bottles. Guest sommelier (from France) , Christian Maier expressed concern that maybe he had been in the New World too long as he couldn't believe that some burgundians could not see the impact of low level cork taint on terroir. A famous Australian wine writer then commented that he was more worried about early oxidation under cork rather than taint. Etienne de Montille and Pascal Marchand presented some excellent wine as well as a vigorous defence of tree bark closures.

The Nuremburg defence?
What kind of taint rate would prompt the debate to break the surface?
In any other industry, this kind of fail rate would prompt a recall.
It's a good thing wine's such a trivial subject, and the money spent can be thrown away without a second thought. Nice that producers clearly think that way and are so in touch with their buyers.
GG

 

[David Lloyd]

originally posted by Graeme Gee:

originally posted by David Lloyd:
The closure debate was just below the surface and a cork taint rate amongst some wines reached as high as 4 out of 19 bottles and was usually between 2 and 3 per 16 bottles. Guest sommelier (from France) , Christian Maier expressed concern that maybe he had been in the New World too long as he couldn't believe that some burgundians could not see the impact of low level cork taint on terroir. A famous Australian wine writer then commented that he was more worried about early oxidation under cork rather than taint. Etienne de Montille and Pascal Marchand presented some excellent wine as well as a vigorous defence of tree bark closures.

The Nuremburg defence?
What kind of taint rate would prompt the debate to break the surface?
In any other industry, this kind of fail rate would prompt a recall.
It's a good thing wine's such a trivial subject, and the money spent can be thrown away without a second thought. Nice that producers clearly think that way and are so in touch with their buyers.
GG

That is the main reason why most NZ and Australian wineries changed to screwcap so quickly. One burgundian who expressed concern that even at the current measured rate of TCA by the BIRB, which is ~2%, he thought one way would be to drop his prices by 2%. When I then ask about the bigger concern that relates to premature oxidation I got a shrug of the shoulders. A friend who opened a bottle of 2002 DRC Montrachet that was fowl with TCA just shrugged his shoulder. I told him that the importer would probably replace with a current release. He said nothing but the shrug implied to me that he felt his allocation may be lost if he complained. The cork industry has made great progress in recent years but I think they will never again regain a favoured position amongst wine producers in Australia and New Zealand.

 

[Graeme Gee]

I understand the local reaction. I guess the Burgundians are lucky that demand presumably outstrips supply, and that their buyers are so accepting of so much faulty stock being shipped.
A 2% price drop would be fine if only 2% of my bottle was corked, but in my experience it's 100% of the bottle!
I asked on your wine-pages thread about the relative taint rates between the Burg wines v local wines under cork - don't suppose you have those figures (or that there's enough locals for a decent sample size?).

I wish some of the white burg makers who seem to be suffering the pox were trying screwcaps. It might at least settle the closure question for that problem one way or the other.
cheers,
GG

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Graeme Gee:
I wish some of the white burg makers who seem to be suffering the pox were trying screwcaps. It might at least settle the closure question for that problem one way or the other.
cheers,
GG

Don't know the details, but there seems to be a general consensus, even among screwcap lovers, that white Burg premox is not due to faulty corks.

 

[David Lloyd]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Graeme Gee:
I wish some of the white burg makers who seem to be suffering the pox were trying screwcaps. It might at least settle the closure question for that problem one way or the other.
cheers,
GG

Don't know the details, but there seems to be a general consensus, even among screwcap lovers, that white Burg premox is not due to faulty corks.

I am aware of the discussion and range of hypotheses. However, in wines in my cellar and those of friends the experience is similar to that of older Aussie Chards kept under cork. I opened 6 bottles of my '99 Chard to get 3. I only have a small number left but photographed them to show what I mean. I only made about 1400 litres and it came out of one tank to go into bottle via a sterile membrane filter. Classic example of premox. See http://tinyurl.com/6ab8zqp I have not experienced this problem since I switched to screw caps.

To answer Graemes question, only two new world wines had cork closures, Dry River, of which we opened 15 from 2004 and 15 from 2008, NONE showed TCA or premox. The other was Tappanappa and it had two with TCA out of 17 bottles opened. The overall TCA count for burgundy was 185 bottles opened of which 20 had TCA.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by David Lloyd:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Graeme Gee:
I wish some of the white burg makers who seem to be suffering the pox were trying screwcaps. It might at least settle the closure question for that problem one way or the other.
cheers,
GG

Don't know the details, but there seems to be a general consensus, even among screwcap lovers, that white Burg premox is not due to faulty corks.

I am aware of the discussion and range of hypotheses. However, in wines in my cellar and those of friends the experience is similar to that of older Aussie Chards kept under cork. I opened 6 bottles of my '99 Chard to get 3. (...) I have not experienced this problem since I switched to screw caps.

The 50% hit rate you mention is consistent with my dismal experience too but, if anything, suggests that the problem is not cork related.

On the other hand, not experiencing premox after switching to screwcaps does make corks look guilty, but for that to convince you'd have to find significant differences in the same wine bottled both ways. More recent whites bottled under screwcap may not show premox simply because they haven't hit that window yet (I'm in the screwcap camp, but the argument has to be rigorous for the opposition to come around).

 

[David Lloyd]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by David Lloyd:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by Graeme Gee:
I wish some of the white burg makers who seem to be suffering the pox were trying screwcaps. It might at least settle the closure question for that problem one way or the other.
cheers,
GG

Don't know the details, but there seems to be a general consensus, even among screwcap lovers, that white Burg premox is not due to faulty corks.

I am aware of the discussion and range of hypotheses. However, in wines in my cellar and those of friends the experience is similar to that of older Aussie Chards kept under cork. I opened 6 bottles of my '99 Chard to get 3. (...) I have not experienced this problem since I switched to screw caps.

The 50% hit rate you mention is consistent with my dismal experience too but, if anything, suggests that the problem is not cork related.

On the other hand, not experiencing premox after switching to screwcaps does make corks look guilty, but for that to convince you'd have to find significant differences in the same wine bottled both ways. More recent whites bottled under screwcap may not show premox simply because they haven't hit that window yet (I'm in the screwcap camp, but the argument has to be rigorous for the opposition to come around).

I and some of my friends do indeed have a number of wines bottled under both screwcap and cork. The cork closures can be as good as the screwcap but they can also show the more oxidized character. I still feel that there are other things going on with White Burgundy as well.

 

[Eden Mylunsch]

Anecdotal evidence from my own experience leads me to believe that the cork industry sent a relatively large quantity of dodgy corks to Australia in the late 1990s. I've got no other way to explain the overly high percentage of TCA-infected bottles I've experienced over the past few years, particularly from the the 1997 and 1998 vintages. This isn't limited to a particular producer, although flawed South Australian bottles seem to be more common than from other regions. At one dinner last year we had nine corked bottles in a row, all 98s from nine different producers. We almost opened a Lodi Zinfandel to break the cycle of disappointment.

-Eden (maybe all the TCAd corks were reserved for bottles destined for export to the US?)

 

[David Lloyd]

I forgot to mention that my screwcap/cork comparison only goes back to 2002 but it shows me that over that time frame many corks are causing greater oxidation than the others.