Jeebus at Szechuan Gourmet

Guess I'll just have to come visit you, Eric, to buy a bottle, one of these days.

(Also, if I want to visit St. Julien en St. Alban, I might have better luck going 10k west of Brezeme? ;-)
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Is it imported to Paris?
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Yes...
Restaurants only though.
Why don't you make a trip to Charnay? Plenty of good wines to taste here. Even hard core natural stuff for hipster Parisiens!
Plus we speak french with a very slight accent.

originally posted by John Roberts:
You had me at "Vieille Serine." Is it imported to the US?
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I guess so.
I don't know for sure if they arrived yet.
 
No sign of Vieille Serine at Chambers or WS, but I'm sure we'll all keep an eye out for it.

Going back to the lactic taste (for me, not so much the diacetyl popcorn/butter thing, more like a yogurt/milk shake thing), questions for the genii locus (the last is more rhetorical, seems impossible to answer):

If the lactic taste results from too much lactic acid (too much = enough to protrude), does that always start life as excessive malic acid, which is then converted by bacteria, or are there situations/grapes in which lactic acid is naturally high (i.e., doesn't result from the conversion of malic)?

If it's most likely due to high malic acid which is then converted, what harvest conditions lead to higher than average malic acid?

During a visit, Luca Roagna said that, the older the vine, the lower the malic content, so red wine made from very old vines may not undergo malos at all. Should we expect wines made from younger vines to taste more lactic, other things equal?
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:


If the lactic taste results from too much lactic acid (too much = enough to protrude), does that always start life as excessive malic acid, which is then converted by bacteria, or are there situations/grapes in which lactic acid is naturally high (i.e., doesn't result from the conversion of malic)?
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Lactic acid has nothing to do with buttery taste. Lactic acid has no real taste except the acidic savour. Tomatos are rich in lactic acid. No buttery taste on mine.

The buttery taste is due to 2,3-butanedione (diacetyl) which is usually due to difficult malolactic fermentation in high alcohol wines. Typically Meursault in ripe years with a very slow malo.
 
Right, I started by saying that lactic, to me, does not mean buttery taste. When we visited Jo Pithon, he said he doesn’t like malic acid. His exact words trasnalet to "tastes like yogurt". So maybe you guys can fight it out, with a very slight accent, and then let us know?!
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Jo Pithon, he said he doesn’t like malic acid (...) "tastes like yogurt".
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This is a first for me...

Again I tasted pure lactic (L-lactic) and (not blended) L-malic solution from 1 ppm up to 20 ppm. No trace of butter!
 
Malic is a stronger acid (and a double buffer) that keeps the pH in your mouth lower than lactic will. Also, when you ferment malic to lactic you lose a whole acidic piece (malic's two become lactic's one plus a CO2 that bubbles away). So MLF will raise pH, lower TA, and buffer at a higher pH.

Many factors affect malic acid, but OTBE, ripeness is a big factor. Cepage, too. Underripe chenin would be the poster child.

Oswaldo, put '80 Huet on the list for me to open when we next meet.
 
originally posted by Brézème:


No Cornas, but... Try my Saint Julien en Saint ALban Vieille Serine.

Saint Julien is an unknow northern rhone satellite, 10 km west (corrected) of Brézème, 20 km south of Cornas.

A very special place (soils are very complicated and can change a lot from one vineyard to another), warmer than Brézème, but the vines there have been cultivated for generations without chemicals (not even copper) and some of the older vineyards (70 years old) are totally clone free (they use marcottage to replace died vines.

Due to the soil (Gneiss, sandstone, decomposed granit) the wine is much closer to Cornas in style than to Brézème (limestone and clay).
Of course whole cluster, short maceration native yeasts and no so2 before bottling.

Sorry for the self promotion...
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New wine? I don't see it on the Texier website, or for sale anywhere in the US.
 
Kate and I had a great time the other night, and are again thankful for the hospitality.

I ended up going home with Juge and on day 2 it was clearly showing cork, and I'm not the world's most TCA sensitive person. And definitely some diacetyl. If people want a flavor standard for dactyl, buy a 79 cent spice bottle of artificial butter flavor. Definitely can be produced as FlaJim suggests by pedio. To me diacetyl doesn't smell nearly as much like butter as "artificial butter."

That scheurebe was pretty awesome. The weight, and balance was beatiful, and the nose was amazing. A stunner really.

I'll have more to say when time permits.

Cheers,

Kevin
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by Salil Benegal:

2001 Müller-Catoir Haardter Mandelring Scheurebe Spätlese
Another spectacular bottle of one of my favourite wines, showing its usual kaleidoscopic flavour profile of exuberant tropical fruits, florality and herbs with wonderful acidity and balance. Hans-Günter Schwarz was a magician.
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Love this wine. Jay, save some for me!
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Salil has just about cornered the market on it (he brought this bottle though I understand why you'd assume it was mine). I think I only have 2 left.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
originally posted by Zachary Ross:
Btw Eric, have you ever had an opportunity to make a Cornas wine? I'd love to see such a thing.
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No Cornas, but... Try my Saint Julien en Saint ALban Vieille Serine.

Saint Julien is an unknow northern rhone satellite, 10 km west (corrected) of Brézème, 20 km south of Cornas.

A very special place (soils are very complicated and can change a lot from one vineyard to another), warmer than Brézème, but the vines there have been cultivated for generations without chemicals (not even copper) and some of the older vineyards (70 years old) are totally clone free (they use marcottage to replace died vines.

Due to the soil (Gneiss, sandstone, decomposed granit) the wine is much closer to Cornas in style than to Brézème (limestone and clay).
Of course whole cluster, short maceration native yeasts and no so2 before bottling.

Sorry for the self promotion...
Click to expand...

Eric, sounds wonderful, I really hope I get to try it if/when it appears here in NYC.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Brézème:


No Cornas, but... Try my Saint Julien en Saint ALban Vieille Serine.

Saint Julien is an unknow northern rhone satellite, 10 km west (corrected) of Brézème, 20 km south of Cornas.

A very special place (soils are very complicated and can change a lot from one vineyard to another), warmer than Brézème, but the vines there have been cultivated for generations without chemicals (not even copper) and some of the older vineyards (70 years old) are totally clone free (they use marcottage to replace died vines.

Due to the soil (Gneiss, sandstone, decomposed granit) the wine is much closer to Cornas in style than to Brézème (limestone and clay).
Of course whole cluster, short maceration native yeasts and no so2 before bottling.

Sorry for the self promotion...
Click to expand...

New wine? I don't see it on the Texier website, or for sale anywhere in the US.
Click to expand...

Exclusively for the NC market.

Fuck you!
 
originally posted by Brézème:
Why don't you make a trip to Charnay? Plenty of good wines to taste here. Even hard core natural stuff for hipster Parisiens!
Plus we speak french with a very slight accent.
Click to expand...

Ha ha. This is a better idea than seeking imports. Joe Dressner tells me one can even bike down the A6.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Oswaldo, put '80 Huet on the list for me to open when we next meet.
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I wish you would film the encounter. It could be a viral hit: "Polite Man Tries Not to Make Puckered-Lipped Grimace."
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Brézème:


No Cornas, but... Try my Saint Julien en Saint ALban Vieille Serine.

Saint Julien is an unknow northern rhone satellite, 10 km west (corrected) of Brézème, 20 km south of Cornas.

A very special place (soils are very complicated and can change a lot from one vineyard to another), warmer than Brézème, but the vines there have been cultivated for generations without chemicals (not even copper) and some of the older vineyards (70 years old) are totally clone free (they use marcottage to replace died vines.

Due to the soil (Gneiss, sandstone, decomposed granit) the wine is much closer to Cornas in style than to Brézème (limestone and clay).
Of course whole cluster, short maceration native yeasts and no so2 before bottling.

Sorry for the self promotion...
Click to expand...

New wine? I don't see it on the Texier website, or for sale anywhere in the US.
Click to expand...

Exclusively for the NC market.

Fuck you!
Click to expand...

Watch your step - I might start hanging out there.
 
originally posted by Kevin Roberts:

To me diacetyl doesn't smell nearly as much like butter as "artificial butter."
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*ding ding* Thank you, Kevin. I was beginning to feel a bit marginalized with that view. The odor of butter is actually quite complex, with contributions from such actors as butyric acid, (yes) diacetyl and ethyl lactate. Diacetyl resembles butter in the same way that benzonitrile resembles cherries.

Mark Lipton
 
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