jean-marie fourrier

[scottreiner]

everyone knows the wines, so i thought i'd share some insights from a conversation today over lunch:

-syrah is not a reductive grape, it is simply very susceptible to odium. lots of sulfur is sprayed in the vineyard to combat the odium which ends up in the wine.

-similarly, in burgundy in 04 there was a lot of odium. the sulfur sprayed to combat it brought total sulfur levels in the wines often to over 100mg/l which explains the green notes seen in the vintage's wines. will dissipate with time as sulfur breaks down.

-he bottles his wines with 800 mg/l of co2, about double the average, which allows him to use less so2. that is why he does not rack the wines, because racking lowers co2 levels. the high level of co2 is why the wines require decanting.

-the peroxide used to clean corks leaks into the wine and causes premox. he uses corks from corsica that have no treatment whatsoever. they are darker in color and are far better for the wine.

-he is frustrated that there are stats of premox by producer, would prefer stats of premox by cork producer.

 

[Ned Hoey]

originally posted by scottreiner:

-similarly, in burgundy in 04 there was a lot of odium. the sulfur sprayed to combat it brought total sulfur levels in the wines often to over 100mg/l which explains the green notes seen in the vintage's wines. will dissipate with time as sulfur breaks down.

I haven't heard that before. Interesting.

originally posted by scottreiner:

-he is frustrated that there are stats of premox by producer, would prefer stats of premox by cork producer.

Makes sense in a way but since consumers have no way of knowing the cork supplier when considering a purchase it seems like it wouldn't be useful to consumers

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

Thanks, must have been a fascinating lunch. First time I've heard the 04 green meanies attributed to sulfur... Does that make sense?

 

[scottreiner]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
First time I've heard the 04 green meanies attributed to sulfur... Does that make sense?

knowing less than nothing about biology or chemistry...

part 2 tomorrow when we will try the 08s and 09s. i will report back.

 

[SFJoe]

Someone with syrah in a dry climate (steve e.?) should weigh in on the question, but it is certainly not what I've ever heard. My understanding is that syrah can be reductive even in the sunniest of summers.

Sulfur has a pretty complicated redox chemistry and I fear that some of that may have been lost in translation here. It is certainly true that sulfur sprayed close to harvest can find its way metabolically into a fermentation and change flavors. The question of what happens when sulfur of this sort "breaks down" is more obscure. Is it cold fission to make oxygen and carbon? Probably not. Wonder what they really mean, or think they mean.

 

[Steve Edmunds]

In my experience, some Syrah has been more reductive than other Syrah. Some of it has, interestingly to me, gotten ridiculously stinky in fermenter, and cleaned itself up again, in fermenter, without any remedial efforts on my part. The original block at Durell used to do that every year, before the phylloxera got such a nasty grip on it. Some has come out of the press stinky, gone into cask that way, with the expectation on my part, that it would require substantial remediation in short order, and then, mysteriously, a few months later, would be clean as a whistle. And some seems never to get stinky at all. Usually the same somes. Suggesting, of course, that it's a vineyard trait.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
Suggesting, of course, that it's a vineyard trait.

Trace amounts of sulfur in the soil? (I believe that's the explanation for the mildness of Vidalia onions -- no sulfur in the soil in that county.)

 

[Steve Edmunds]

Not sure sulfur has that much to do with it. More like bad digestion. Caused, perhaps by inadequate nourishment of yeast.

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
In my experience, some Syrah has been more reductive than other Syrah. Some of it has, interestingly to me, gotten ridiculously stinky in fermenter, and cleaned itself up again, in fermenter, without any remedial efforts on my part. The original block at Durell used to do that every year, before the phylloxera got such a nasty grip on it. Some has come out of the press stinky, gone into cask that way, with the expectation on my part, that it would require substantial remediation in short order, and then, mysteriously, a few months later, would be clean as a whistle. And some seems never to get stinky at all. Usually the same somes. Suggesting, of course, that it's a vineyard trait.

Steve, sounds like you're channeling Donald Rumsfeld here!
Sounds like a tricky grape to work with.

 

[Steve Edmunds]

sounds like you're channeling Donald Rumsfeld here!

I think I missed something...is Rumsfeld a Disorderly?

 

[Politburo]

originally posted by Steve Edmunds:

I think I missed something...is Rumsfeld a Disorderly?

No.

 

[Brézème]

originally posted by scottreiner:

-syrah is not a reductive grape, it is simply very susceptible to odium. lots of sulfur is sprayed in the vineyard to combat the odium which ends up in the wine.

I sprayed sulfur only once in 2009 on the brezeme serine vineyard. Some of you can testify that it taste like pure s..t right now.
Saint Julien en Saint Alban vineyard has never seen a hint of sulfur. 2010 is reductive as hell.
They use tons of sulfur on grenache in Provence. I have never encountered a reductive grenache wine from there.

I guess syrah doesn't behave the same in Cote d'Or and in the Rhone:)

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

If Rumsfeld were here, I think we'd be seeing some more interesting sanctions that those the politburo comes up with. And if he wanted information about a particular wine, well, harsh interrogation techniques would be in order.

 

[David M. Bueker]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
If Rumsfeld were here, I think we'd be seeing some more interesting sanctions that those the politburo comes up with. And if he wanted information about a particular wine, well, harsh interrogation techniques would be in order.

Shiraz-boarding?

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

With Chave? Okay!

 

[David M. Bueker]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
With Chave? Oaky!

Fixed.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

Yes, these interrogation techniques are as insidious as they are ingenious.

 

[Florida Jim]

I would be curious to know Fourrier's experience with syrah which gives him this insight.
Syrah on the Cote d'Or - something to think about.
Best, Jim

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Florida Jim:
I would be curious to know Fourrier's experience with syrah which gives him this insight.
Syrah on the Cote d'Or - something to think about.
Best, Jim

He used to make syrah in the south but had to get rid of the property (because he lost a whole vintage to bad corks)*. It was pretty good. Polished, as you might expect.

* attrib. Claude Kolm.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Brézème:

originally posted by scottreiner:

-syrah is not a reductive grape, it is simply very susceptible to odium. lots of sulfur is sprayed in the vineyard to combat the odium which ends up in the wine.

I sprayed sulfur only once in 2009 on the brezeme serine vineyard. Some of you can testify that it taste like pure s..t right now.
Saint Julien en Saint Alban vineyard has never seen a hint of sulfur. 2010 is reductive as hell.
They use tons of sulfur on grenache in Provence. I have never encountered a reductive grenache wine from there.

I guess syrah doesn't behave the same in Cote d'Or and in the Rhone:)

I am almost positive that this is a translation problem between technical and non-technical people crossing language barriers.

Sort of like translating Chauvet for wine writers.