G Conterno and ripeness

J

Josh Beck

Josh Beck
... what say you all?

I've been unimpressed by most of the post 04 wines I've tasted. Trying the 08 Langhe Nebbiolo 'Ceretta' tonight, the declassified first year of production from his new acquisition, assuming I have that right. Similarly to the Cascina Francias (04-06) that I've had lately, it is "pretty good" but soft and unfocused with very ripe / sweet fruit and fails to really beguile. I feel as though older vintages are not pushed so far. I don't dislike this wine, but I feel that it could be more. I'm genuinely curious what other opinions are...
 
2002 Monfortino is delicioso.

I think we need more time to really assess what this Ceretta project will turn into. It is a recent acquistion (and declassified), after all. When you look at what the last producer working with that fruit was turning out from Ceretta and what Giacomo Conterno is turning out, I'd definitely say we've made some progress.

With Cascina Francia, both 2004 and 2006 are that kind of year. Big, soft palate kind of years. And they all need more time. The 1999 is still a little kid with a lot of potential.

The more I learn about Barolo, the more the myth of Giacomo Conterno is in general confirmed, at least for myself.
 
I've tried 02 Monfortino once, from cask, and thought it was stunning and a potential legend. I have thought pretty highly of the 98/99 CF (haven't actually had the 01, sadly, but I have a few bottles squirreled away). I have really struggled with 04/05/06 CF. An 05 this past fall was really stewed, pruney and bitter in a lineup with other 05's and was soundly upstage by Monprivato and Giacosa Asili. B Mascarello was a better wine except for a non trivial amount of brett. G Rinaldi Brunate was unfortunately corked so couldn't compare it.

There aren't many producers out there in whom I have more faith, but my faith is being questioned by the multiple poor showings of recent releases. Maybe it's just me?
 
I only tried the 04 and 05 CF and I agree that the 05 had a poor showing, but the 04 was alright. Perhaps not the towering wine people expected but nonetheless I found it an excellent wine.

By coincidence, I had the 1990 CF last night - also from a ripe year, I gather - and I thought it to be among the wines of the night. No small achievement in the company of other greats from the same year (including 3 Giacosas, Rinaldi, Mascarello both, and so on, which I will write about shortly). Yes it was ripe, dark and full, but at the same time, so powerful, structured, manly I would say - for some reason an adjective that characterizes all the wines I enjoyed most last night.

I have been into barolo for only a few years and have very, I repeat, very little experience, but I think one thing with producers such as Giacomo Conterno is to have faith. Not that they will always make outstanding wines (the 97 particularly comes to mind, but it might have been a flawed bottle), but still... I can however understand the issue when one needs to decide whether to purchase 05 CF vs 05 Monprivato, but not both.
 
I'm sorry, how did I forget, I had the 06 CF and the 02 Monfortino at the winery this past summer, both from bottles that have been open for at least a few days. The CF was savory with very little fruit showing, so I don't know what to say about it. Both were pretty closed to me.
 
I don't drink Conterno young so I can't really speak to the issue, but...

- Soft and supple seems consistent with the style they've always been gunning for, to me. Cascina Francia can get downright Burgundian with age. If you're craving something tougher and edgier, drink Mascarello!

- The Barbera d'Alba doesn't seem quite the wine it once was to me. I found some of the vintages of the '90s absolutely transcendent, but the last few vintages have just seemed like very good Barbera (albeit on the richer side) and not compelling enough to justify the price tag.
 
FWIW, I brought the 08 Langhe Ceretta in to work today and served it blind to Jeff and Eric as well (for those that don't know / full disclosure style, I am the asst winemaker @ Rhys). I served it to them blind. They both hated it, and we all agreed that it doesn't really smell of nebbiolo on the nose, today the odd savory character from yesterday was more manifest in a cheesy, off aroma. Pretty much blech. This may just be a bad bottle or a first year for the Ceretta, but it was also among the three of us that we tried and universally panned the 05 CF. The 04 CF was perhaps a bit longer ago and I don't remember it as well, and the 06 was from cask, so I don't recall as many details but certainly, at the time, thought both were pretty ripe.

Again, maybe it's just me, and I will try a couple more bottles, but it could be that I'll stay happy with my stock of back vintages and put my $ going forward into Mascarello and Rinaldi among others...
 
The old owner of Ceretta didn't make wine from it. The owner of a neighboring parcel took the grapes and made a Barolo from them.

I can't agree at all that the Conterno Ceretta Nebbiolo is bleh. I don't think it is transcendent, but I actually think it smells very typically of the Roberto Conterno style. That is actually pretty amazing, when you think about it. There is a signature there.

If someone wants to stop buying Conterno, which already has perhaps too many followers, that is of course totally fine with me.
 
my first bottle of this was tasted about 4 months ago. it was really tough on day one. but day two it had resolved some of it hard edge and was really quite nice. i may try another tonight, but would not dismiss this wine based on just opening and tasting on one day.

levi, is the cerretta vineyard owned by sergio germano in serralunga a different site?
 
We all drink a fair bit of Nebbiolo, yes.

I am far from writing anything off at this address. I am curious about others' feelings on these wines though. I'll try another of the Ceretta at some point here, and I will probably revisit the 06 CF as well as I now have some bottles.

But the difference in freshness, expressiveness, detail and elegance between the 05 Monprivato or 05 Giacosa Asili and the 05 CF was really striking. 05 F Rinaldi Brunate was also a spectacular bottle of wine and far better than the CF that I had, at about 40-50% of the price no less.

I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or claim that I'm some canary, just curious if anyone else thinks the wines are getting riper, I appreciate the commentary thus far.
 
It was, and I may be wrong about this, a parcel previously owned by a Swiss gentleman. I was told that a rather famous New York based sommelier, whose name wouldn't surprise anyone, took Roberto Conterno to the vineyard site as an advisor. Was this a good place from which to make wine, the sommelier wanted to know. "Do you think we should buy it?" he asked. "No," was Roberto's reply, "I think I should buy it." Which he then proceeded to do.
 
Josh:

A couple of years ago I had dinner at a place in SF with some friends and we saw the '99 Monprivato on the list at a great price. I figured the wine would be pretty damn angry and closed but I had a few in the cellar and the price was super so curiosity got the better of me. Anyway, when the wine was decanted and served, I literally almost fell out of my chair. The Monprivato reminded me of a Chambolle with a great nose and submerged/soft tannins - but still clearly nebbiolo. It was fantastic and so open. I would have thought someone pulled a bottle switch on me but the wine never left the table.

Now, the odds of that happening again are pretty damn slim and I haven't even thought about cracking one of my bottles. Most bottles are probably shut down now and that one with dinner was likely an aberration. But I've had this experience before with Barolos and Barbarescos - i.e. where they show in unexpected ways. Anyway, maybe this has just been my odd experience, but it seems that you can never be really sure about judging young Barolos unless you have a great deal of experience (which I certainly don't have).
 
Mike - I don't have as much experience as I'd like and far less than some, no doubt. The 99 Monprivato is a home run and a half though, I agree, and in general I find Monprivato to be stylistic right in my sweet spot, one of my favorites in most vintages.

Starting with 04 I'm fantastically enamored with F Rinaldi Brunate and Cannubi, really good things going on there. Between Cappellano, F Rinaldi, G Rinaldi, G Mascarello, Cavallotto, Produttori, the odd B Mascarello, Giacosa when prices cooperate, occasional bottles of Vajra, Oddero, Marcarini, Vietti, Burlotto, etc, I have a hard time with the premium that CF goes for, particularly after tasting :( Still, I have a number of them from recent vintages, so I hold on to hope!

Once I take delivery of a few more 06's, I look forward to a tasting of CF, Monprivato, G Rinaldi, F Rinaldi and Cavallotto (what I've bought thus far).
 
Josh, I am sure you are a good guy and that we could definitely bro down over a glass at some point, but that being said, some of what you have just mentioned is a little puzzling to my simple mind.

You have problems with ripeness at Giacomo Conterno, but you like the wines of Vietti?

If anything, Francesco Rinaldi would seem to be the producer amongst those you mention whose style has inched up a bit riper of late. At least to the eye of this beholder.

Do you drink recent vintages of Marcarini and dig on them?

But anyway, you like Burlotto, so you must be alright.
 
i drank the 2008 cerretta nebbiolo last night. this is my second bottle, the first being about 4 months ago. 4 months ago the wine was downright angry and really hard to assess on day one. it drank better with 48 hours of air.

last night was a different story. pretty classic nebbiolo. very dry, a touch of licorice, nice cherry notes. a tomato sauce like flavor too , which is unusual. no sweet fruit that i detect. good stuff with pork chops. expensive for what it is though.
 
... I can however understand the issue when one needs to decide whether to purchase 05 CF vs 05 Monprivato, but not both.
Click to expand...

hmmm....Monprivato 80 bucks, Conterno 115+...let's see...
I love CF as much as the next guy, but the pricing leads me to pick GM instead,
sorry.
 
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