Cellar trip

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by scottreiner:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:
...what was the ‘horror’ provoked by the 96 Pichon Baron [just not a PN?] which would usually be a great bottle wine.

Really?

+1, I haven't had a vintage of Pichon Baron I've enjoyed or found interesting since the early 80's.

Well, I've liked both the 1995 and the 1996 within the last year. Jeff can back me up on the 1995.

 

[Peter Creasey]

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by scottreiner:

+1, I haven't had a vintage of Pichon Baron I've enjoyed or found interesting since the early 80's.

Have you tried the 89 or 90?

Yes, the '90 was and is wonderful. I like also the '97, '02, and '04 and maybe some others.

. . . . . . . Pete

 

[SFJoe]

I have a notion in my head that '90 PB was the first Bdx to really impress me as being on the summit of spoof, but I think my notes went down with wine therapy.

Might I be thinking of the Y2K?

 

[Sharon Bowman]

originally posted by scottreiner:
I haven't had a vintage of Pichon Baron I've enjoyed or found interesting since the early 80's.

Dude, your parents let you start drinking young.

 

[Brian C]

originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by scottreiner:

+1, I haven't had a vintage of Pichon Baron I've enjoyed or found interesting since the early 80's.

Have you tried the 89 or 90?

Yes, the '90 was and is wonderful. I like also the '97, '02, and '04 and maybe some others.

. . . . . . . Pete

A '66 last night was showing startlingly youthful.

 

[nigel groundwater]

originally posted by SFJoe:
I have a notion in my head that '90 PB was the first Bdx to really impress me as being on the summit of spoof, but I think my notes went down with wine therapy.

Might I be thinking of the Y2K?

Surely 90 was a bit early for the summit of spoof?

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by SFJoe:
I have a notion in my head that '90 PB was the first Bdx to really impress me as being on the summit of spoof, but I think my notes went down with wine therapy.

Might I be thinking of the Y2K?

Surely 90 was a bit early for the summit of spoof?

I felt that they were the Norgay and Hillary of the category.

 

[nigel groundwater]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by SFJoe:
I have a notion in my head that '90 PB was the first Bdx to really impress me as being on the summit of spoof, but I think my notes went down with wine therapy.

Might I be thinking of the Y2K?

Surely 90 was a bit early for the summit of spoof?

I felt that they were the Norgay and Hillary of the category.

More like Mallory and Irvine - at least IMO :)

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by SFJoe:
I have a notion in my head that '90 PB was the first Bdx to really impress me as being on the summit of spoof, but I think my notes went down with wine therapy.

Might I be thinking of the Y2K?

Surely 90 was a bit early for the summit of spoof?

I felt that they were the Norgay and Hillary of the category.

Gazooks, I had no idea that they had spoofed their way to the top.

 

[SFJoe]

micro-ox.

 

[nigel groundwater]

originally posted by SFJoe:
micro-ox.

Wasn't that a post 90 invention?

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by SFJoe:
micro-ox.

They rode up Everest on small oxen?

 

[Ned Hoey]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by SFJoe:
micro-ox.

They rode up Everest on small oxen?

micro yax

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

originally posted by SFJoe:
micro-ox.

They rode up Everest on small oxen?

So long as the oxen were not under-age at the time of riding. That would be premature oxenation.

 

[David Lloyd]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:
...what was the ‘horror’ provoked by the 96 Pichon Baron [just not a PN?] which would usually be a great bottle wine.

Really?

My horror was indeed because I had to endure a Bdx. I essentially only enjoy PN, Chard, Gamay and Zin with a little affection for Nebiollo. But Cab and Bdx blends give me little enjoyment so I don't partake.
The other wines were all from 2006 and the Fontaine Gagnard was a Chard. My experience with my wines and that of colleagues is that the same Chardonnay bottled from one tank via a sterile membrane filter into glass bottles sealed with natural cork show huge variation in terms of oxidation character after about 4 years. I am not hijacking this to a closure debate but will add that the same group of us have changed to use either diam cork or screwcap and have not experienced the same early oxidation issue. The early oxidation of our wine was a far greater concern than TCA. The figures quoted in this thread that show the fabulous improvement in TCA levels for US cork bales had a starting point that was near threshold . Our experience is clear and I strongly believe that the change of practice amongst white burgundy producers is a minor issue compared to the variation in elasticity caused by the natural product. I have observed many bottling lines in operation in Burgundy and feel that for the smaller producers (under 10,000 case total production) the care of the wine is not as high as I see in the new world. I have never seen a small burgundy producer measuring dissolved oxygen or using a liquid nitrogen bottle flushing system. Most new world makers have carbon dioxide over the wine tank at a rate to match wine flow and sometimes supplement this with dry ice to give a better layer of carbon dioxide in that tank. I have not seen such care used in burgundy. Premox is a very complicated area that the burgundians will eventually get on top of but at the moment I am reluctant to spend a lot of money on wine that shows premox 4 to 6 years down in the track. I will follow forums etc and wait for the all clear before buying to age white burgundy.

 

[scottreiner]

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by scottreiner:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:
...what was the ‘horror’ provoked by the 96 Pichon Baron [just not a PN?] which would usually be a great bottle wine.

Really?

+1, I haven't had a vintage of Pichon Baron I've enjoyed or found interesting since the early 80's.

Have you tried the 89 or 90?

i would prefer the 89 to the 90, which to me has no soul. 90 blind could easily be from california. to that point, what about either vintage speaks of pauillac?

pichon baron is a good example of why i seldom drink bordeaux. (price is another...)

 

[nigel groundwater]

originally posted by scottreiner:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by scottreiner:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:
...what was the ‘horror’ provoked by the 96 Pichon Baron [just not a PN?] which would usually be a great bottle wine.

Really?

+1, I haven't had a vintage of Pichon Baron I've enjoyed or found interesting since the early 80's.

Have you tried the 89 or 90?

i would prefer the 89 to the 90, which to me has no soul. 90 blind could easily be from california. to that point, what about either vintage speaks of pauillac?

pichon baron is a good example of why i seldom drink bordeaux. (price is another...)

OK I understand and apparently you don't think Californian wines have 'soul' either. We all have our likes and dislikes and are surely entitled to our differences.

As for speaking of Pauillac, IMO Pichon, both of them, do so in their different ways.

Of course my exposure to Californian wines is very slight so I cannot say whether I would like them but feel reasonably certain I would find at least some that I would enjoy since in the past, when I worked for a major US multinational, I enjoyed a number on my visits.

However as I suspected David Lloyd was reflecting his opinion of Bordeaux wines generally rather than of the Pichon specifically.

He has also addressed some of the issues more relevant to this thread in his latest post.

 

[scottreiner]

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by scottreiner:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:

originally posted by scottreiner:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by nigel groundwater:
...what was the ‘horror’ provoked by the 96 Pichon Baron [just not a PN?] which would usually be a great bottle wine.

Really?

+1, I haven't had a vintage of Pichon Baron I've enjoyed or found interesting since the early 80's.

Have you tried the 89 or 90?

i would prefer the 89 to the 90, which to me has no soul. 90 blind could easily be from california. to that point, what about either vintage speaks of pauillac?

pichon baron is a good example of why i seldom drink bordeaux. (price is another...)

apparently you don't think Californian wines have 'soul' either.

not so. there are many cali wines that have funk and soul and really represent their terroir. but when a bordeaux can so easily be confused with a cali cab, as so many today do, the wines have no soul not because they taste like they're from cali, but because they don't taste like they're from bordeaux...

 

[David Lloyd]

Scott, you have an interesting set of points on Cab and terroir that probably are best dealt with as a new thread IMHO.

 

[scottreiner]

originally posted by David Lloyd:
Scott, you have an interesting set of points on Cab and terroir that probably are best dealt with as a new thread IMHO.

you gotta appreciate some thread drift!