TN: JBL visit (March 6, 2011)

J

Jeff Grossman

Jeff Grossman
attendees: Christine, Brad, Jason + Lynn, SFJoe, Jeff, Chris Kravitz, Jay, Jayson + Laura, .sasha, Don Rice, Chris + Lisa, Manuel + Josie, Greg d P

A name of some conjecture, this Jason Brandt Lewis. Merely a whisper on WD yet, like other Great Old Ones, he is famous for being in the graduating class at WLDG High.

So, when he's here, we jeeb. NYC style.

Big names.

Big foods: rillettes, spicy garlicky cocktail shrimp, roast pork shoulder with 4 sauces, risotto with snails and morels (and candy caps!), garlicky oven-roast chicken, roast asparagus, green salad, sauternes cake, apple cake, cinnamon ice cream, and probably several things I missed.

Big wine, too:

Paul Clouet NV Champagne Brut Rose - OK zip, clean, strawberry-ish, a touch too sweet for me, un-yeasty

Dagueneau 2005 Fume Blanc de Pouilly "Buissons Renard" - piney nose, a bit of green, some candy?, fascinating but I'm not sure that there is any food that goes with this

Dom. de la Pepiere 2005 Muscadet "Clos des Briords" - magnum; so nice

Dom. de la Haie-Trois-Sols (Paul et Francis Richard) 1964 Muscadet - horribly oxidized, swimming pool, gak

Bod. Gerardo Mendez 2009 Do Ferreiro Albarino, Cepas Veillas - spicy, fat, zippy, wow, fiesta!

Luneau-Papin 1995 "L d'Or" - whiff of cork on opening, it seems to blow off but this wine never shows much... scalped?

Knoll 2001 Loibner Gruner Veltliner Smaragd Vinothekfullung - L/F 635402; rich, honeyed, apricots, a sweet-ish background but not really overtly sweet itself, kinda nice

Fritz Haag 2008 Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese - 1 bunch; 25770500709; "Sulfurous" -Chris; quite sweet and quite sour, really awkward, not a very good drink now

Fritz Haag 2009 Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese - 1 bunch; much suaver than its sibling, less sweet and less sour but better integrated

Mt. Eden 2002 Chardonnay - old woody hot-climate chard, bleh; I don't care if JBL did like this some years ago

Contino 1995 Rioja Reserva "Vina del Olivo" - really woody rioja, bleh bleh

Ch. Giscours 1967 Margaux - dried flowers and cedar, a whiff of meat, this is pretty and gentle, a comforting bottle

Clos de la Roilette 2007 Fleurie - aromatic but tough, not for me

Ridge 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon "Jimsomare" - "I'm loving it" -Brad; beautiful aged cab, blackberry pie and cedar, so good

F. Rinaldi 2006 Barolo "Cannubbio" - flowers and tanning, FLOWERS AND TANNIN, I say; crystalline purity, so redfruity, wow

Sunrise 1978 Cabernet Sauvignon, Frey Vineyard - corked

Foillard 2006 Morgon "Cuvee 3.14" - beautiful! earth and plums and minerals and strawberries and sex

Edmund St-John 1995 Syrah, Durell Vineyard - wow, vigorous, gorgeous, cinnamon, perfect match with the pork shoulder, did I saw wow yet?

Marcarini 1982 Barolo "La Serra" - faded generic red

Pravis 2007 Regent - regent is a cross of diana x chambourcin (and diana is a cross of silvaner x muller-thurgau); from Trentino, no treatments in the field, no sulfur in the bottle, just wine; primitivo-ish, good

O. Raffault 1978 Chinon "Les Picasses" - this is Chinon de luxe! cedary but gentle, another in the Giscours vein

Ravenswood 1992 Zinfandel, Dickerson Vineyard - pretty, still vigorous

Ridge 1999 Cabernet Sauvignon "Monte Bello" - magnum; I recall it was good but I have no note

Allemand 1996 Cornas "Chaillot" - good acidity, blue and red fruits, firm and grippy, yum

Warre 1977 Vintage Port - amazingly vinous (meaning, rather subdued on the sugar and spirits), beautiful with dessert

Dom. Beaucastel 1995 Chateauneuf-du-Pape - flat, baked, lifeless

Dom. de Bongran 1996 Macon-Clesse "Quintaine" - good zip, slightly tropical fruits, yum, "Crazy acidity" -Joe

Huet 1969 Vouvray Moelleux 1er Trie "Clos de Bourg" - so wooly, so lanolin, so apricot, transporting

Prevost NV Champagne "La Closerie les Beguines" - OK (Jay thinks I dislike this wine but I just checked my notes and I've previously been merely indifferent; this didn't change my mind)

Puffeney 2007 Arbois Trousseau - gritty but good

F. Cotat 2001 Chavignol Rose - savory, tangy, I like, I wish I'd known to start saving these sooner

---

Perhaps we need a quick quality review?:
- Best of the night... Albarino, Jimsomare, Cannubbio, 3.14, Durell, Bourg
- So good but I think about others... Briords, Picasses, Chaillot
- And yet, my mind wanders... Knoll, Giscours, Ravenswood, Bongran
 
Jeff - You ought to spend several hours with a bottle of Mt Eden Vineyards (not speaking of that particular vintage, although as I recall, last time I had it a few years back it showed typically).

MEV doesn't show well in this kind of speed tasting format, but it can be something really special. Dismissing it as hot climate Chardonnay is a joke.

This is one of California's few really traditional producers, and there's great vineyard to boot. One of the greatest wines from the Chardonnay grape that I've ever had is 1978 Mt Eden, and everyone I know who had the wine says the same thing.
 
Jeff, Any theories as to what was wrong with the Beaucastel '95?

You say "baked". Is this to suggest possible heat damage?

Or some other affliction?

. . . . . Pete
 
Cristian... Yes, F. Rinaldi. I will edit.

Peter... It was dead. Heat damage is the best guess.

Claude... I'm sorry but that's not what this bottle showed me (or most folks). I will be delighted, however, to spend some hours with another bottle to give it a fair-er shake.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
TN: JBL visit (March 6, 2011)attendees: Christine, Brad, Jason + Lynn, SFJoe, Jeff, Chris Kravitz, Jay, Jayson + Laura, .sasha, Don Rice, Chris + Lisa, Manuel + Josie, Greg d P

A name of some conjecture, this Jason Brandt Lewis. Merely a whisper on WD yet, like other Great Old Ones, he is famous for being in the graduating class at WLDG High.

So, when he's here, we jeeb. NYC style.

Big names.

Big foods: rillettes, spicy garlicky cocktail shrimp, roast pork shoulder with 4 sauces, risotto with snails and morels (and candy caps!), garlicky oven-roast chicken, roast asparagus, green salad, sauternes cake, apple cake, cinnamon ice cream, and probably several things I missed.

Big wine, too:

Paul Clouet NV Champagne Brut Rose - OK zip, clean, strawberry-ish, a touch too sweet for me, un-yeasty

Dagueneau 2005 Fume Blanc de Pouilly "Buissons Renard" - piney nose, a bit of green, some candy?, fascinating but I'm not sure that there is any food that goes with this

Dom. de la Pepiere 2005 Muscadet "Clos des Briords" - magnum; so nice

Dom. de la Haie-Trois-Sols (Paul et Francis Richard) 1964 Muscadet - horribly oxidized, swimming pool, gak

Bod. Gerardo Mendez 2009 Do Ferreiro Albarino, Cepas Veillas - spicy, fat, zippy, wow, fiesta!

Luneau-Papin 1995 "L d'Or" - whiff of cork on opening, it seems to blow off but this wine never shows much... scalped?

Knoll 2001 Loibner Gruner Veltliner Smaragd Vinothekfullung - L/F 635402; rich, honeyed, apricots, a sweet-ish background but not really overtly sweet itself, kinda nice

Fritz Haag 2008 Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese - 1 bunch; 25770500709; "Sulfurous" -Chris; quite sweet and quite sour, really awkward, not a very good drink now

Fritz Haag 2009 Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr Riesling Spatlese - 1 bunch; much suaver than its sibling, less sweet and less sour but better integrated

Mt. Eden 2002 Chardonnay - old woody hot-climate chard, bleh; I don't care if JBL did like this some years ago

Contino 1995 Rioja Reserva "Vina del Olivo" - really woody rioja, bleh bleh

Ch. Giscours 1967 Margaux - dried flowers and cedar, a whiff of meat, this is pretty and gentle, a comforting bottle

Clos de la Roilette 2007 Fleurie - aromatic but tough, not for me

Ridge 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon "Jimsomare" - "I'm loving it" -Brad; beautiful aged cab, blackberry pie and cedar, so good

F. Rinaldi 2006 Barolo "Cannubbio" - flowers and tanning, FLOWERS AND TANNIN, I say; crystalline purity, so redfruity, wow

Sunrise 1978 Cabernet Sauvignon, Frey Vineyard - corked

Foillard 2006 Morgon "Cuvee 3.14" - beautiful! earth and plums and minerals and strawberries and sex

Edmund St-John 1995 Syrah, Durell Vineyard - wow, vigorous, gorgeous, cinnamon, perfect match with the pork shoulder, did I saw wow yet?

Marcarini 1982 Barolo "La Serra" - faded generic red

Pravis 2007 Regent - regent is a cross of diana x chambourcin (and diana is a cross of silvaner x muller-thurgau); from Trentino, no treatments in the field, no sulfur in the bottle, just wine; primitivo-ish, good

O. Raffault 1978 Chinon "Les Picasses" - this is Chinon de luxe! cedary but gentle, another in the Giscours vein

Ravenswood 1992 Zinfandel, Dickerson Vineyard - pretty, still vigorous

Ridge 1999 Cabernet Sauvignon "Monte Bello" - magnum; I recall it was good but I have no note

Allemand 1996 Cornas "Chaillot" - good acidity, blue and red fruits, firm and grippy, yum

Warre 1977 Vintage Port - amazingly vinous (meaning, rather subdued on the sugar and spirits), beautiful with dessert

Dom. Beaucastel 1995 Chateauneuf-du-Pape - flat, baked, lifeless

Dom. de Bongran 1996 Macon-Clesse "Quintaine" - good zip, slightly tropical fruits, yum, "Crazy acidity" -Joe

Huet 1969 Vouvray Moelleux 1er Trie "Clos de Bourg" - so wooly, so lanolin, so apricot, transporting

Prevost NV Champagne "La Closerie les Beguines" - OK (Jay thinks I dislike this wine but I just checked my notes and I've previously been merely indifferent; this didn't change my mind)

Puffeney 2007 Arbois Trousseau - gritty but good

F. Cotat 2001 Chavignol Rose - savory, tangy, I like, I wish I'd known to start saving these sooner

---

Perhaps we need a quick quality review?:
- Best of the night... Albarino, Jimsomare, Cannubbio, 3.14, Durell, Bourg
- So good but I think about others... Briords, Picasses, Chaillot
- And yet, my mind wanders... Knoll, Giscours, Ravenswood, Bongran
Click to expand...

Huh, I seem to have missed a few good things.

I shouldn't have served the Prevost when I did, but I had threatened .sasha with it.

JBL may have gone to WLDG HS, but I met him on alt.food.wine during the Mesozoic.

I didn't have any more time for the Mt. Eden than you did, which disappointed me. Like Claude, I had higher expectations, but this was a wine that suffered from too much oak, but also it seemed some subpar barrels.

I liked the Roillette better than you did, though it is undeniably young.

The Jimsomare was lovely. I was quite happy with the Monte Bello, too. Young, vigorous Ridge, just coming into its drinking window.

'06 3.14. Woo woo.

The acidity on the Bongran was crazy because it was simultaneously so ripe.

The '69 Huet was great, great wine. Thank you, Chris.

And thanks for the notes, Jeff.
 
My World of Fine Wines are packed away somewhere, but there's a short article 3-5 years back about a Mount Eden Chardonnays that I did based on a Bipin Desai tasting dinner (IMO, not the optimum way to taste, but useful nonetheless).

When I say 1978 Mt Eden Vineyard is one of the greatest wines from Chardonnay grape that I have tasted, I say that having had more than my fair share of Montrachet from DRC, Leflaive, Lafon, Laguiche, etc.; Corton-Charlemagne from Bonneau-du-Martray and Coche-Dury, among others; and Chablis grand cru from the likes of Raveneau and Dauvissat. And as I mentioned above, the estate is very traditional, making wine very much the way it did back in 1978 (and before to the legendary Martin Ray estate, for what I know).

But of course, each bottle is different and each palate, too. I could go on about Ruck or Horst Sauer in Franken and many would remain unmoved before the wines.
 
I haven't had the '78 and am nobody's chardonnay expert.

This bottle of '02 was not speed-tasted, it just wasn't particularly pleasant.
 
The Mt. Eden was an auction purchase so I'm going to go with the "mistreated somewhere along the way" theory. It's the first wine I've had from the producer (chard, pinot or cabernet) which I've actually disliked.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I haven't had the '78 and am nobody's chardonnay expert.

This bottle of '02 was not speed-tasted, it just wasn't particularly pleasant.
Click to expand...
There's always the possibility of subpar bottles (or bottles at not the right time), whether one is talking of DRC, G. Conterno, Prüm, whatever. VLM can come in and speak to the significance of a statistical sampling of 1. Whether the bottle was good or not, it is misleading to write it off as hot climate Chardonnay.

For those who don't know me, I generally am not a defender of post-1980 CA wines.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Whether the bottle was good or not, it is misleading to write it off as hot climate Chardonnay.
Click to expand...
Under those rules of the game, every wine is MAGNIFICENT... but no generalization is possible because this particular bottle isn't so good.

Sorry, no can do. This bottle had blah boring wine in it. I make no aesthetic judgment about any of the other bottles of MEV (though I will note that, sometimes, the future is like unto the past).

I also note, as you did, that YMMV. (For example, SFJoe feels no need to forcibly demonstrate to me that Roilette really is wonderful.)

-
ETA: lightly rewritten for clarity
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Whether the bottle was good or not, it is misleading to write it off as hot climate Chardonnay.
Click to expand...
Under those rules of the game, every wine is MAGNIFICENT... just this bottle isn't so good.

Sorry, no can do. This bottle had blah boring wine in it. I make no aesthetic judgment about any of the others (though I will note that, sometimes, the future is like unto the past).

I also note that YMMV.
Click to expand...
Sorry, Jeff, I can't agree. There's a difference between saying you didn't like the bottle and definitively attributing what you didn't like to the climate. If it's a hot climate Chardonnay, then every bottle would be bad in the same way. Why don't you tell us what you know about the vineyards at MEV?

Again, VLM, I invite you to come in and comment on a sample size of 1.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I wish we could have saved that bottle for Claude.
Click to expand...
Joe -- You've missed my point. One unimpressive bottle does not serve to write of the wine definitively (some of my colleagues notwithstanding) or to characterize the terroir from which it comes. I might have disliked the bottle; it wouldn't have caused me to abandon my view of MEV, as I gather it didn't for JBL -- any more than a single disappointing bottle of DRC or Rousseau or Huët or Verset would cause me to write their wines off.
 
The wine in that bottle definitely was not good. But I wouldn't think to describe Santa Cruz as hot climate. Though I have no idea what it was like in 2002.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
There's a difference between saying you didn't like the bottle and definitively attributing what you didn't like to the climate.
Click to expand...
That's what it tasted like to me. Don't read so much into it, Claude.
 
I know a few people loved 08 Haag; I was one of them.

07 Coudert was significantly better 48 hours later, less candied but still fresh. But it's a slightly bigger wine than I had expected.

I would not be surprised if 95 beaucastel had been bottled with that heat.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Dom. de la Pepiere 2005 Muscadet "Clos des Briords" - magnum; so nice
Luneau-Papin 1995 "L d'Or" - whiff of cork on opening, it seems to blow off but this wine never shows much... scalped?

Knoll 2001 Loibner Gruner Veltliner Smaragd Vinothekfullung - L/F 635402; rich, honeyed, apricots, a sweet-ish background but not really overtly sweet itself, kinda nice

Huet 1969 Vouvray Moelleux 1er Trie "Clos de Bourg" - so wooly, so lanolin, so apricot, transporting
Click to expand...

Dougherty wines.

Allemand 1996 Cornas "Chaillot" - good acidity, blue and red fruits, firm and grippy, yum

F. Cotat 2001 Chavignol Rose - savory, tangy, I like, I wish I'd known to start saving these sooner
Click to expand...

Sasha wine. Although I think he brought at least one Haag.

Dom. Beaucastel 1995 Chateauneuf-du-Pape - flat, baked, lifeless
Click to expand...

IME, done. Professor?

Dom. de Bongran 1996 Macon-Clesse "Quintaine" - good zip, slightly tropical fruits, yum, "Crazy acidity" -Joe
Click to expand...

Awesome. Who brought this? Old-ish Bongran is a real treat.

Prevost NV Champagne "La Closerie les Beguines" - OK (Jay thinks I dislike this wine but I just checked my notes and I've previously been merely indifferent; this didn't change my mind)
Click to expand...

Not an fan for which I am pilloried.

Nice to see that Mssr. Cohen is out and about.

Did I get my SFJoe/.sasha guesses correct?

Sounds like a great time, wish I could have been there.
 
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